| What are the chances that next week's election will be stolen? |
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Asked 1 year ago
by iamafractal  United States |
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About
Iterative system.
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10 Points
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[4 points] 1 year ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment has been moderated down. (Show Comment)
> Obama has enough of a cushion that it's not going to be close enough . . .
Wow, bold statement, alas, I think it will be closer than you think.
Only if he manages to steal enough votes to make it close.
And liberals say conservatives use fear and scare tactics, wow. As if any one side has an incontestable right to win this election (or any election for that matter) and it can be stolen from them, really.
republicans stole 2000 and 2004, so they have a strong election theft track record that we can go on.
It cannot be both ways, i.e., the GOP cannot be the party of uniformed, Bible-Thumping, Fox News loving, gun-loving, abortion hating, beer guzzling yahoos from the backwoods and yet are also somehow capable of not only once, but twice (and attempting a third time) stealing elections by Machiavellian schemes (including voter disenfranchisement, bashing Obama with false and hurtful stories, voter purging, evil electronic voting machines, Florida and its hanging chads, etc.). After all, if the Dems are so much more evolved and so much more informed and sophisticated than the GOP, how is that even possible? These evil schemes would take a great deal of thought and brain power that apparently the GOP just doesn’t posses to be able to pull off from those backwoods and beer halls they love so much.
It didn't take all that much, really. But WHAT they did is why people across this entire country are rallying to the voter booth.
It only took the organization and rallying skills of Karl Rove and selected key organizers in Florida to pull off Bush's defeat of Gore in 2000.
It only took the determined skills, using his position as Secretary of State and having an eye to the future of the Governor's mansion, for Kenneth Blackwell to hand Bush Ohio in 2004.
Katherine Harris, for her loyalty to the Republican Party in Florida, became such a reviled politician by the people of Florida who believed her actions were partisan and illegal she became too 'hot.' The Republican Party abandoned her in her political career. She had ambitions far beyond Secretary of State - and they came to nothing. She couldn't even get the RNC to help her with campaign fund raising.
Specific action I can cite: voter challenges. A federal employee had his vote challenged when he appeared at the polling station. The challenger's stated reason for challenging the vote: he believed the voter was a convicted felon and thus ineligible for voting under Florida law. The federal employee filed a lawsuit following the election because he feared the future of his job - federal employees are fired if convicted of a felony. The man who challenged his vote admitted, in federal court, that he challenged the federal employee's felony status BECAUSE he was black. This made both state wide and national news and resulted in deep anger from Florida voters.
The Katherine Harris' fallout:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1531257,00.html
Kenneth Blackwell battled the lawsuits he was slapped with for his efforts on behalf of the RNC in 2004. The lawsuits were all dismissed since none of the actions he chose in 2004 were illegal.
His actions: under supplying predominantly Democratic voting districts with voting machines. When these districts reported being overwhelmed by voters and not having enough machines - paper provisional ballots were supplied on election day. Also under supplying predominantly Democratic voting districts that did NOT use voting machines (but paper ballots) with ballots. When these districts ran out of ballots and called for more - they were supplied with 'provisional ballots' in place of regular ballots. As the counting began, Kenneth Blackwell announced that no provisional ballots would be counted towards the election totals. He said it would take too long, and he didn't want to keep the country 'waiting' for Ohio's election results. When lawsuits were filed to force the count of the provisional ballots that were supplied in place of regular ballots, the Secretary of State cited Ohio law in his defense. Ohio law clearly states that provisional ballots do NOT have to be counted.
The people of the state of Ohio were so incensed at this blatant circumvention of our vote - Kenneth Blackwell achieved less than 37% of the vote for Governor in 2006. The voters handed the Governorship to only the third Democrat in the past 30 years, seated a majority of Democrats in both the Ohio's House and Senate and Cincinnati (where I live) has it's FIRST Democratic party city council in HISTORY. Republican voters (an overwhelming majority in Cincinnati) were THAT angry about the Republican Party's bold manipulation of the vote they flipped to take as much away from them as they could. Even though Blackwell GAVE them the presidential candidate they wanted - they were overcome by his blatant manipulation of the vote and lost all trust in Republicans to be faithful to the will of the people of this state. On December 27, 2004, Blackwell requested a court order to protect him from being interviewed in the Moss v. Bush case, a challenge of the presidential vote and fought a subpoena, arguing that the litigation was frivolous.
Blackwell, incidentally, after losing his bid for Governor of Ohio was awarded an ambassadorship to the United Nations Human Rights Commission by the Bush administration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Blackwell
Well, you certainly are passionate about that. However, the Dems are far from scandal free, that is all I am saying.
The People's Republic of China campaign finance controversy (1996) Refers to alleged efforts by China to influence the 1996 elections by directing campaign donations through intermediaries, largely to Democratic candidates including Bill Clinton and Al Gore.
There are ethical questions surrounding Dems as well, very clearly.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-09-democrats-ethics_x.htm
Will Dems allow soldiers to vote??? See, the Dems are not above wanting to deny voters either.
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content
Teamstergate in which Teamster president Ron Carey (D) allegedly gave money to Bill Clinton's (D) 1996 presidential campaign and Clinton gave money for Carey's campaign. Carey's re-election was invalidated, though he was later cleared of all charges. No charges were ever filed against the Clinton's.
There were concerns within the Democratic part of voter fraud within their own party.
http://israelinsider.ning.com/profiles/blogs/2018399:BlogPost:10132
Oh yeah - don't get me wrong. The Democrats have plenty of scandals. Both must be watched closely.
But the funny thing: Almost any Democrat, when asked point blank, will admit to every short falling and failure of their party. Republicans, however, will NEVER admit it - to the point of baldfaced lying, distortion and twisting of facts. When cornered rather than ADMIT their failures and short fallings - they point to DEMOCRATIC party political shortcomings.
So you essentially have the party that calls itself 'moral' - the Republicans - refusing to admit when their party screws up and makes very bad decisions via blaming the people across the isle. And you have the ones that the 'moral party' calls immoral - the Democratic Party - standing up and being moral when they look at their party's failures.
The hypocrisy is laughable.
> Oh yeah - don't get me wrong. The Democrats have plenty of scandals. Both must be watched closely.
Very true. However, I kind of feel in the end it seems easier for both sides to blame the other. I kind of see the Democrats, in my opinion, as acting as though scandal doesn't touch them, when there can be equally just as much scandal in either party if you look for it. I find it questionable for example where Obama is getting all of this campaign money, disclose where it comes from. Don't act like a completely honest and up front person when there are things you are not fully disclosing. You are a politician, so we know you will probably lie to sell us something.
After that EXTENSIVE (whew) reply - here's a quick blip to show you what I mean about Ohio's backlash against the Republican Party following Blackwell's 2004 vote manipulation:
(quoting statistics specifically to Hamilton County - Cincinnati):
"In 2000, the last time both parties had a competitive primary, 115,300 voters participated on the GOP side, while only 54,600 cast votes for Democrats. This year the numbers are flipped: 83,400 voted for Republican candidates, and nearly 165,000 participated in the Democratic primary."
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1855354,00.html?xid=rss-topstories
In 2000 - I was one of those who was registered with the GOP. I am now a registered Democratic Party voter and I know a lot of people just like me. These are not "liberal media" manipulations of facts.
Read the link if you'd like - it's specifically about the flip from a solid, hard-core GOP voting base in Cincinnati to Democratic Party majority. Fascinating study in just what happens in this country when it comes to voter disenfranchisement.
I was shocked to discover that people will take the manipulation of the vote THAT seriously - even when the manipulated election hands them a victory for their party's candidate. I am proud to say that Ohioans have stood up for what was RIGHT - as opposed to simply shrugging and ignoring it because "our guy won - that's what's most important."
Interesting, I just find it hard to believe that only the GOP is capable of manipulations that would turn voters to the other party.
Of course they are not. But this is the first time, in MY living memory that we have seen voters flip to this extent. Yes - the "Promise to America" (or whatever it was that Gingrich led the Republican fight in) to "toss out the bums" of the Democratic Party during the Clinton administration came close. But that was a political movement.
This is a completely different issue. This isn't a backlash against political ideals. THIS is absolute rebellion by party faithful. Republicans were a vast majority in Ohio. Republicans held a majority in virtually every district. Only areas in Cleveland and Dayton would vote Democrats into office.
The Republican Party, through Kenneth Blackwell manipulated the vote to put a fellow Republican in office. By all rights - that SHOULD have been the candidate the majority of voters in this state wanted elected. I think they gambled that most wouldn't CARE that the vote was so blatantly manipulated. But the voters of this state were so incensed that the vote was manipulated they have absolutely broken ranks with their party.
The only Republican whom Ohioans continue to worship (lol) is George Voinovich. A former mayor of Cleveland (and a rare Republican one) and one of our senators. As far as we are concerned - he walks on water. (lol)
>The only Republican whom Ohioans continue to worship (lol) is George Voinovich. A former mayor of Cleveland (and a rare Republican one) and one of our senators. As far as we are concerned - he walks on water.
Lol, good one. It is a shame those kind of actions can taint elections so. It is funny how playing the game in politics can be such a dangerous thing, and may end up blowing up in their own faces so to speak.
I think the handling of the primary between Hillary and Obama was a shameful display. Even within his own party he was the presumptive candidate that just had to win, and be damned if he didn't. Then the DNC stage with the Roman Pillars was just too much. Then his 30 minute ad, it was overkill imho. For me he has not run a cleaner campaign free from questionable practices or tactics any more than McCain.
Another case in point, the Dems bemoan the GOP being in the pocket of big business, when you could say they might just be in the labor unions pockets themselves. Some of the tactics of the unions are pretty strong. I work for an employment law firm, and have seen a few instances of how they try to "campaign." They are not above intimidating workers and making elections a rather dubious event.
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[1 point] 1 year ago by deleted user Reply> That's a rather absurd statement.
About absurd as your previous statement
> Obama has enough of a cushion that it's not going to be close enough for that to be a factor. I'm sure there'll be some questionable issues - Florida is almost certainly going to be another disaster. Ohio has a Dem secretary of state now, so that should be fine. But he could lose both these states and still win easily.
As though Obama should just be handed this election, like it is a no brainier and we just need to roll over and not question him or his politics. It seems there is a sense that some feel he is entitled to win this election, it's not over till its over, election night is next Tuesday, so until then, I can question who will win, because nothing is guaranteed in this life.
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[1 point] 1 year ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[5 points] 1 year ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment has been moderated down. (Show Comment)
Again, it seems conservatives are not the only ones using fear in this election.
> the GOP is trying to steal this election - it was frightening.
Happy Halloween! I may just have to wear my Sarah Palin costume to scare the little children of the liberals this year, lol.
lol - I wore a Nancy Pelosi costume for Halloween in 2006.
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[3 points] 1 year ago by deleted user ReplyYeah, hard to believe, seems no party is above it. Dems are not above it, despite what you may want to say. I am sure you will have some objection to that statement.