We don't live in a democracy. We live in a democratic republic. We elect representatives who vote for us. If it was one person one vote then blacks would still be sitting on the back of the bus and not allowed to go to the same schools as whites.... since the majority of the people in the states where Jim Crow laws existed wanted them.
Sure, but it strikes me as weird that a country that professes to be democratic would deny people the right to vote :( I would have expected that from a "new" democracy, not from a country like the USA. What is next, deny people the right to vote because they are homosexual/illiterate/black/dumb?
This is quite different from that. The point is that when you commit a felony you are doing something that harms your fellow citizens. That means you forfeit certain rights (like liberty or weapons possession). In some states voting is one the rights you lose, but you lose it because of your actions, not because of who or what you are (black/homosexual/dumb, etc). As Thomas Hobbes said, without the social contract life would be "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short."
[2 points]49 days ago by plawlerReplyEdited 49 days ago by plawler
No. Being blond is something you "are." Not something you do.
If you commit a felony (which by definition is a serious crime against society), you lose certain societal privileges. One of those privileges is carrying a firearm. One is voting. Here is the rationale:
In limiting the freedoms of convicted felons, incarceration is designed to punish inmates and impress upon them the magnitude of their crimes. As a privilege to be enjoyed by law-abiding citizens, prohibiting inmates from voting further drives this point home. Prohibiting former felons from voting for life ensures the integrity of the electoral process, especially in states and jurisdictions where the populace directly elects judges, law enforcement officers and district attorneys.
Hmm, being blond is indeed something you are, but if it was considered a felony (and people in power have passed weird laws) it would be illegal to vote. I certainly understand the rationale, however I strongly disagree with it.
And yes incarceration is punishment, yet by itself it does little to change the behavior of the inmates for the better. I would guess that taking away the right to be treated as a person makes it less likely for the felon to want to be part of the society.
I am a big believer in the carrot and the stick approach, when you commit a crime you get grounded, but while you are in jail you get every opportunity to learn how to behave responsibly and that includes the right to voice and vote for your opinion.
Of course not. But someone who has committed a crime must face the punishment- the punishment of giving up certain privileges, which include freedom (presuming they're in jail) and voting rights.
Not sure if this is what FinalCountdown meant, though... so I'm more replying to ask001, just to make it clear.
Exactly, but rights are something you can lose. If you show you are not willing to obey the basic laws/statutes of a country, why should you receive the rights unique to the citizens of that country? Democracy (literally "people rule") is not just about the rights the people's government grants you, its about the responsibilities you have towards that government. And if you do not uphold those responsibilities, you are not granted the rights.
(Note: this doesn't extend to basic human rights of, you know, life and fair treatment, only to the special rights citizens have.)
I think it is a viable question/discussion. Going back to Hobbes and Locke, a violation of law (especially a serious one, i.e. felony) is an act against the state. I'm not sure people who have committed felonies should be barred from voting for life, however, I find it ridiculous that it should be beyond discussion for a government to consider that option.
I suppose if they were convicted of conspiring to overthrow the government or something, barring them from voting forever might make more sense. But I do agree that when they are in prison, they are being *punished*. They lose the privileges of free men and women because of their crime(s). One of those privileges is the right to select their leaders.
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Not the Democrats again.
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LOL
Felons should have the right to vote after they get out of prison.
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CDC
Center for Disease Control?
Lol they are allowed to be senators even while in prison.... http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/can_a_convicted_felon_serve_in_elected.html
That's hilarious. I doubt we'll see that though. Bush will probably give him a pardon and he won't do any deserved time.
All things considered, his offenses were pretty minor.
Every person has the right to vote, including people in jail.
Not in the US; you lose your right to vote, in some states, permanently.
You guys are weird, in a democracy it is one person one vote, well it should be...
We don't live in a democracy. We live in a democratic republic. We elect representatives who vote for us. If it was one person one vote then blacks would still be sitting on the back of the bus and not allowed to go to the same schools as whites.... since the majority of the people in the states where Jim Crow laws existed wanted them.
Sure, but it strikes me as weird that a country that professes to be democratic would deny people the right to vote :( I would have expected that from a "new" democracy, not from a country like the USA. What is next, deny people the right to vote because they are homosexual/illiterate/black/dumb?
This is quite different from that. The point is that when you commit a felony you are doing something that harms your fellow citizens. That means you forfeit certain rights (like liberty or weapons possession). In some states voting is one the rights you lose, but you lose it because of your actions, not because of who or what you are (black/homosexual/dumb, etc). As Thomas Hobbes said, without the social contract life would be "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short."
So if being blond was against the law you could be denied the right to vote?
No. Being blond is something you "are." Not something you do.
If you commit a felony (which by definition is a serious crime against society), you lose certain societal privileges. One of those privileges is carrying a firearm. One is voting. Here is the rationale:
In limiting the freedoms of convicted felons, incarceration is designed to punish inmates and impress upon them the magnitude of their crimes. As a privilege to be enjoyed by law-abiding citizens, prohibiting inmates from voting further drives this point home. Prohibiting former felons from voting for life ensures the integrity of the electoral process, especially in states and jurisdictions where the populace directly elects judges, law enforcement officers and district attorneys.
Hmm, being blond is indeed something you are, but if it was considered a felony (and people in power have passed weird laws) it would be illegal to vote. I certainly understand the rationale, however I strongly disagree with it.
And yes incarceration is punishment, yet by itself it does little to change the behavior of the inmates for the better. I would guess that taking away the right to be treated as a person makes it less likely for the felon to want to be part of the society.
I am a big believer in the carrot and the stick approach, when you commit a crime you get grounded, but while you are in jail you get every opportunity to learn how to behave responsibly and that includes the right to voice and vote for your opinion.
This comment has been moderated down. (Show Comment)
CDC
I believe voting is a privilege similar to driving. IMO voting is not an intrinsic right like the right to life.
So, should we institute voting exams?
Of course not. But someone who has committed a crime must face the punishment- the punishment of giving up certain privileges, which include freedom (presuming they're in jail) and voting rights.
Not sure if this is what FinalCountdown meant, though... so I'm more replying to ask001, just to make it clear.
Voting is not a privilege it is a basic right/duty in a democracy.
Exactly, but rights are something you can lose. If you show you are not willing to obey the basic laws/statutes of a country, why should you receive the rights unique to the citizens of that country? Democracy (literally "people rule") is not just about the rights the people's government grants you, its about the responsibilities you have towards that government. And if you do not uphold those responsibilities, you are not granted the rights.
(Note: this doesn't extend to basic human rights of, you know, life and fair treatment, only to the special rights citizens have.)
We want politicians to represent all of us, that includes those people in jail.
Absolutely not.
.... Im suprised we even talk about things like this anymore.
I think it is a viable question/discussion. Going back to Hobbes and Locke, a violation of law (especially a serious one, i.e. felony) is an act against the state. I'm not sure people who have committed felonies should be barred from voting for life, however, I find it ridiculous that it should be beyond discussion for a government to consider that option.
I suppose if they were convicted of conspiring to overthrow the government or something, barring them from voting forever might make more sense. But I do agree that when they are in prison, they are being *punished*. They lose the privileges of free men and women because of their crime(s). One of those privileges is the right to select their leaders.