Community votes are collected from you and other visitors to Ask500People. Independent votes are collected from visitors to hundreds of other websites around the world.
Sign Up or Login
Sorry, this data is only available to users with an account.
I discussed a similar issue with a priest, when I asked him if god thought those people were bad, he replied "of course not", so my follow up question was "so why does the church believe they are bad?". at that point he chose to end the conversation :(
And that is taken out of context. I don't recall right off, but that may the verse that, when going back to the original Aramaic, is in a context of breeding warriors for the invading Israelites. Or it might be the one where Paul is bitching about the Greek penchant for recreational sex.
At any rate, most of the so-called anti-homosexual verses are not, not when the entire background is known. And, silly me, I thought that Christ was quite clear: TWO COMMANDMENTS.
1. Love God.
2. Love your neighbor.
It could even be argued, on a great deal of evidence, that you do the first by doing the second.
The encounter I had with the priest made it obvious to me that not all Christian preachers follow the word of Jesus and believe the church is more important then their god. Good to see that large portion of the followers are decent people and do love their neighbors. I think the same can be said for all religions though.
Who's going to make an issue of a member's sexuality? Do church groups routinely pass judgment and expel members who fail some litmus test of membership requirements. Forgive my ignorance, I've never been part of a congregation.
Sadly, many do. No fundamentalist church will allow a gay member unless that person is in one of their programs to 'cure' him or her.
When Gene Robinson was consecrated the first homosexual Anglican Bishop, he went through the ceremony wearing a bullet-proof vest. The letters he and his partner received with death threats were graphic and stomach-turning.
So how is this done? Do they provide a detailed questionnaire that must be filled out in full and signed? Do they just observe your behavior and judge for themselves? Or wait for you to say something incriminating? Do they put their restrictions out where you can inspect them beforehand? Is there a list of official sins that must be avoided?
For an organization that (supposedly) is in the business of saving souls, to show so little interest in their natural customer base would seem nuts. It would seem that many only want to preach to the choir.
Detailed questionnaire? No. Innuendo, actions, 'confession,' and so forth.
Surprising as it is to an atheist like me, there are many devout homosexuals who feel literally torn in two between their love of God and their essential nature.
Me, I'd shitcan a church that preached hatred so fast your head would spin. As a matter of fact, that isn't so far off what put me on the road to atheism.
I wouldn't say "no" fundamentalist church, but you are certainly correct about many of them. Sadly, the whole "mote and beam" story seems to be lost on them. ;o)
Even if you believe that homosexuality is a sin, who did Christ (by his own admission) come for? Oh yeah... darn that Bible.
[1 point]3 years ago by plawlerReplyEdited 3 years ago by plawler
Additionally, while all other forms of violent crime have been plummeting, hate crimes have been doing just the opposite. Gay-bashing. Latino-bashing. And many of these incidents end in murder. It's the new lynch mob of the new millennium.
I didn't say or imply that you are gay. I said that if you don't care about the question, you shouldn't bother answering it. If you DO answer a question, people assume that you care about the question.
Churches shouldn't have collection plates. Churches shouldn't hassle people for adultery, it's the people's business.
How can a Catholic church tell a Hindu that they're not going to heaven because they're not Catholic, that's just rude..........
A religion is what it is, and if you want to pick and choose what you want to follow that's fine, but to attempt to reshape a religion for everyone based on your own feelings is silly.
I agree with the question as stated... but I probably disagree with (what I perceive as) the intent of the question.
Should they allow gay members? Absolutely. Should they be forced by law to allow gay members? No. Just as Catholic convents should not be forced to admit men, or monasteries to admit women.
I am sure God Recognizes that as mankind becomes more cognizant of the human condition and that all the signs point to homosexuality being of genetic origin, God is currently Thinking, "People will no longer believe the hype I fed them 4,000 years ago, that they were just weak-willed moral degenerates."
"They're onto me," is what God is probably thinking nowadays. So, "yes," churches should allow gay members into the congregation if only because God doesn't want us to think he's stupid. Now that homosexuality is suspected to be of genetic origin and since the mere mortals credit God with writing the code, to quote Val Kilmer playing Doc Holliday in the movie "Tombstone" God would have to make this line His own when Doc says, "It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds" that is if he were to smite homosexuals for behaviors He wrote into their code. Duh.
And epigenetic origin. For instance birth order apparently plays a huge part. The more older brothers you have, the more likely to be a gay male. It is hypothesized that the female body makes "anitbodies" against male fetuses that feminize them, so that the more older brothers, the more likely the fetus will be feminized, i.e. be gay.
I can see pros and cons with that idea, but just goes to show genetics may not be the whole story.
If a gay is in a church that doesn't allow homosexuality, why not just move to a different church where it is allowed, or start a new church?
Everybody has a different conception of God. Some base theirs on the Bible, which presents many different and sometimes conflicting ideas of its main character.
Others base their idea on whatever their mother or pastor tells them, without ever reading the Bible. Also, a lot of popular Christian religion is not even from the Bible, but external traditions.
Every religion in history has invented its own god. Nobody worships an objective god, but the god between their ears. If Romans 1 forbids homosexuality, you are free to just ignore Romans 1 and invent a new god who doesn't mind. It's all good.
United States
Only Christian ones. They are the "LOve thy neighbor" folks, right?
I discussed a similar issue with a priest, when I asked him if god thought those people were bad, he replied "of course not", so my follow up question was "so why does the church believe they are bad?". at that point he chose to end the conversation :(
The Catholic Church differentiates between the person and the action. It is not bad to BE gay, only to act upon it.
Stupid.
The bible says something about men not laying with men as they lay with women. But the homosexuals are not laying with men as they lay with women.
And that is taken out of context. I don't recall right off, but that may the verse that, when going back to the original Aramaic, is in a context of breeding warriors for the invading Israelites. Or it might be the one where Paul is bitching about the Greek penchant for recreational sex.
At any rate, most of the so-called anti-homosexual verses are not, not when the entire background is known. And, silly me, I thought that Christ was quite clear: TWO COMMANDMENTS.
1. Love God.
2. Love your neighbor.
It could even be argued, on a great deal of evidence, that you do the first by doing the second.
The encounter I had with the priest made it obvious to me that not all Christian preachers follow the word of Jesus and believe the church is more important then their god. Good to see that large portion of the followers are decent people and do love their neighbors. I think the same can be said for all religions though.
Who's going to make an issue of a member's sexuality? Do church groups routinely pass judgment and expel members who fail some litmus test of membership requirements. Forgive my ignorance, I've never been part of a congregation.
Sadly, many do. No fundamentalist church will allow a gay member unless that person is in one of their programs to 'cure' him or her.
When Gene Robinson was consecrated the first homosexual Anglican Bishop, he went through the ceremony wearing a bullet-proof vest. The letters he and his partner received with death threats were graphic and stomach-turning.
So how is this done? Do they provide a detailed questionnaire that must be filled out in full and signed? Do they just observe your behavior and judge for themselves? Or wait for you to say something incriminating? Do they put their restrictions out where you can inspect them beforehand? Is there a list of official sins that must be avoided?
For an organization that (supposedly) is in the business of saving souls, to show so little interest in their natural customer base would seem nuts. It would seem that many only want to preach to the choir.
Detailed questionnaire? No. Innuendo, actions, 'confession,' and so forth.
Surprising as it is to an atheist like me, there are many devout homosexuals who feel literally torn in two between their love of God and their essential nature.
Me, I'd shitcan a church that preached hatred so fast your head would spin. As a matter of fact, that isn't so far off what put me on the road to atheism.
I wouldn't say "no" fundamentalist church, but you are certainly correct about many of them. Sadly, the whole "mote and beam" story seems to be lost on them. ;o)
Even if you believe that homosexuality is a sin, who did Christ (by his own admission) come for? Oh yeah... darn that Bible.
Additionally, while all other forms of violent crime have been plummeting, hate crimes have been doing just the opposite. Gay-bashing. Latino-bashing. And many of these incidents end in murder. It's the new lynch mob of the new millennium.
Only if they willing to believe 12 impossible things before breakfast.
Where is the option: "I dont care"?
Then don't bother to reply. Or else people will think you DO care.
If you want to say, that I am gay...nope, sry.
I think this is a language difficulty.
I didn't say or imply that you are gay. I said that if you don't care about the question, you shouldn't bother answering it. If you DO answer a question, people assume that you care about the question.
Oh...ok :)
I will remeber that ;)
;)
Please stop winking at each other, you're making the rest of us uncomfortable....
:)
Lol XD
Why? Cant handle winking? lol
Churches shouldn't have collection plates. Churches shouldn't hassle people for adultery, it's the people's business.
How can a Catholic church tell a Hindu that they're not going to heaven because they're not Catholic, that's just rude..........
A religion is what it is, and if you want to pick and choose what you want to follow that's fine, but to attempt to reshape a religion for everyone based on your own feelings is silly.
I agree with the question as stated... but I probably disagree with (what I perceive as) the intent of the question.
Should they allow gay members? Absolutely. Should they be forced by law to allow gay members? No. Just as Catholic convents should not be forced to admit men, or monasteries to admit women.
I am sure God Recognizes that as mankind becomes more cognizant of the human condition and that all the signs point to homosexuality being of genetic origin, God is currently Thinking, "People will no longer believe the hype I fed them 4,000 years ago, that they were just weak-willed moral degenerates."
"They're onto me," is what God is probably thinking nowadays. So, "yes," churches should allow gay members into the congregation if only because God doesn't want us to think he's stupid. Now that homosexuality is suspected to be of genetic origin and since the mere mortals credit God with writing the code, to quote Val Kilmer playing Doc Holliday in the movie "Tombstone" God would have to make this line His own when Doc says, "It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds" that is if he were to smite homosexuals for behaviors He wrote into their code. Duh.
http://tinyurl.com/c7lubj links to memorable quotes from the movie "Tombstone."
And epigenetic origin. For instance birth order apparently plays a huge part. The more older brothers you have, the more likely to be a gay male. It is hypothesized that the female body makes "anitbodies" against male fetuses that feminize them, so that the more older brothers, the more likely the fetus will be feminized, i.e. be gay.
I can see pros and cons with that idea, but just goes to show genetics may not be the whole story.
'Sounds kosher to me. I'm not very well read on this subject and most of what I do know I learned here. :)
If a gay is in a church that doesn't allow homosexuality, why not just move to a different church where it is allowed, or start a new church?
Everybody has a different conception of God. Some base theirs on the Bible, which presents many different and sometimes conflicting ideas of its main character.
Others base their idea on whatever their mother or pastor tells them, without ever reading the Bible. Also, a lot of popular Christian religion is not even from the Bible, but external traditions.
Every religion in history has invented its own god. Nobody worships an objective god, but the god between their ears. If Romans 1 forbids homosexuality, you are free to just ignore Romans 1 and invent a new god who doesn't mind. It's all good.