| Isn't it better to legalize all Mexicans, They're be paying taxes that'll help booster our social programs, that help them? |
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Asked 126 days ago
by shermjohn  United States |
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About
Old enough to know how little I know, young enough to seek answers.
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12 Points
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Clarify question, I meant illegal Mexican immigrants, who now live in this country undetected, or simply neglected for what ever reason. Seems to me, that is the biggest economic gripe, not them taking our jobs.
What about illegal immigrants from other countries?
Mexicans are not illegal.
Or do you mean immigrants?
Not all illegal immigrants are Mexican, and certainly not all people of Mexican heritage in the US are here illegally.
Phrasing it the way you did is why Dems call people who want to see current immigration law enforced Racist.
What I see that adds to this issue, is unlike the whole expense of welfare spread say 25 years ago, has concentrated in more specific locations. The poor has always been with us, but the migrational movement of immigrants legal and ill-legal have been more city specific. These patterns, have cause the spread to shorten, thus put a far greater social cost burden on fewer cities than in the past.
But it will cost agribusiness a fortune, which they will pass on to the consumer. That's why they lobby against opening up immigration and against increased enforcement against undocumented workers.
God Bless America!
I dunno, I hear they pay $50/hour to pick lettuce in Yuma. That's what McCain said anyway.
Yeah, and I hear he was screwed up in the head from being a prisoner of war. Oh, wait--he was. ;)
Picking vegetables is a very small part of agribusiness. It might increase the cost to consumers, but I don't think it will do any permanent damage.
As with nearly all businesses, labor is the single biggest cost. Picking can't be automated so the way to up the profits is to shortchange the labor. It's the American way.
I don't think immigrants pay US taxes so making them legal won't matter. We need to stop giving them the benefits of our social programs like social security and welfare. They don't deserve any of it but many seem to know how to benefit from it. This is the problem.
You are right. They are the ones draining our social system. Take a good look at what is happening in California.
And of course, gutting their tax base in the 1970s had nothing to do with.
I know for a fact that undocumented workers pay into Social Security and the IRS--people whose SS# had been used would come into the office to complain about the government showing their income to be much higher than they had actually made--and yet, those same undocumented workers cannot collect benefits on the basis of the money they have paid into both Social SEcurity and taxes.
So just who is it that benefits from undocumented workers? All of agribusiness, and everyone in the United State who eats--we pay the world's lowest percentage of our income for food, and one major reason it is so cheap is the illegally low payment, and sometimes non-payment, of wages to undocumented workers--who are, BTW, of Native American descent. Everyone who is currently collecting Social Security, and benefits from withholding dollars and payroll taxes paid by people who cannot collect them back.
Just to name a few.
So, hurray for voluntary slave labor?
And since when are the Asians who sneak in "of Native American descent"? And are you so sure that there are no Mexican citizens here of purely Spanish blood? You make a lot of assumptions, almost as many as the original poster.
Pretty much I am sure that mexicans of pure Spanish blood aren't out picking crops. For one thing, those of pure blood tend to be rich--like the white/black dichotomy here, only more so. For another, you can look at their faces and see the Indio.
I think our treatment of agricultural workers is appalling. I know it is often illegal.
But if the economic side--too many people, including you and I profit from it--isn't addressed, all that moaning about the costs does is foster the lynch mob mentality.
Oh, and the destruction of the Central American economies by American businesses, military, and Friedman-trained economists is another reason these people leave home and come to America. Which we also bear responsibility for.
It's a real damned if you do and damned if you don't for the peoples south of the border; and about 90% of it can be laid directly at our door.
Enigmamz: "You make a lot of assumptions, almost as many as the original poster"
Mexicans represent the highest percentage by far of all races entering this country, and contribute also to the highest percentage of illegal immigrants. So, you're making a tremendous jump to say, the question is worded by not addressing the major problem. Try asking questions with limited space, that'll cover all the exceptions etc. You got to sometimes get the ball of discussion going. Kinda like your indept coverage of the firecracker usage... Instead of trying to be nick-picky to much, keep to the essense of the question. Or, would you rather tear apart the questionaire's intent, rather than stand to the major issue raised at hand?
One of the major hospitals where I live has recently closed down it's OBGYN clinic. The reason they had to close was because there were too many patients who would come in for care or to have a child and not give a legitimate address for billing.
That is the reason they gave officially. But after speaking with one of the doctors who worked there, he told me that a very high percentage of those who did not pay, also requred interpreter services.
People who enter the US illegally are hurting citizens. It is not just about the price of lettuce. It is also about the dismal state of our health care system. One reason health care prices are so high is because of all the money lost treating illegals who don't pay. Hospitals have two choices, either pass that expense on to those who do pay, or close their doors. Either way, the American citizen loses.
The US has already offered amnesty to illegals under Reagan. It was one of the biggest mistakes of his presidency. Repeating that mistake isn't going to fix the fundamental problem. American businesses that employ illegals should be heavily fined for each illegal they hire. This will dry up the jobs available to illegals and they will not have a reason to stay. Yes, the price of lettuce will go up, but it will be because we are paying someone a fair wage to harvest it and not exploiting the poor who don't happen to be a US citizen.
But it IS about the price ofg lettuce. As long as extremely powerful people stand to benefit from undocumented workers, we will have them. If you want your OBGYN clinic to do better, then you have to quit putting the money in the pockets of the rich. All that undocumented workers do in your case is transfer the money from your clinic into ConAgra's pockets.
It is really no different than WalMart paying their people too little to live on, and then giving classes in how to get government aid to make up the short-fall.
Read Nickle and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich. She really points out alot of the problems of underpaid workers. One of her thought questions at the end of the book sounds appropiate here. "Many of Ehrenreich's colleagues relied heavily on family---for housing and help with child care, by sharing appliances and dividing up the cooking, shopping and cleaning. Do you think Americans make excessive demands on the family unit rather than calling for the government to help those in need?"
-this is a complex issue to be sure, but one that still needs continued open discussions like this one. Thanks for all your comments
I have. Also, "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein. It is a must-read--otherwise, you don't understand how Friedman-style free market economics have directly increased poverty world-wide.Also seen the documentary "The High Cost of Low Price." Also am not part of the upper middle class, as many of the members here are.
Thanks I will read it. Where can I get the source to view the documentary? During the night of reading Nickel and Dimed, couldn't put it down, I emailed several maid service providers in such cities as Macon GA, Jackson MS, Memphis TN and after quoting some from this book I told this workers (mostly women, not all) that now I understand why not only the wealthy home owners won't show appreciation, but their employers and society in general won't. Remember pg 117, "Work is supposed to save you from being an 'outcast', as Pete puts it, but what we do is an outcast's work, invisible and even disgusting. Janitors, cleaning ladies, ditchdiggers, changers of adult diapers--these are the untouchables of a supposedly caste-free and democratic society." While as a young man, I worked a couple of summers on third shift at a local nursing home. I saw and felt this form of discrimination first hand. I wrote these maids my short story, and then told them tonight I felt compelled to tell them from me... THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HARD WORK YOU DO... BLESS YOUR HEARTS.
Are you kidding!!!!??? We do not need to pay for our social programs, we need to cut most of our social progarms. Social progarms are the reason why most of these people come here to start with and they just want more and more.
There is really two questions here. What makes the most economic sense when dealing with 9.7-11 million illegal Mexicans that hold the possibility of being productive citizens? That's probably going to be some sort of guest worker status with a path to citizenship and a real difference in government services between the two.
As a Christian though, I have to ask, "What is the right thing to do." Most of the things that show love and mercy to the illegals show disrespect and cause loss for legal citizens. The best economic answer will split us into two classes. (officially) Not doing anything leaves us treating illegals like slaves. We take care of food, housing, medical care and some education for your kids, but there's really no way to become one of us. And we tell the citizens that a huge amount of their money is to be spent caring for the slaves. But your veggies will be cheaper! If we have some sort of general amnesty, we are saying by all those that follow the laws that: We didn't really mean it when we said that we have the rule of law in this country. Laws are really not that important. We will just ignore the ones we don't like, and you all that followed the rules are just suckers.
The American people are going to have to find a position we can live with. Because otherwise, we have expensive slaves that we pay wages.