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All depends which bits you read. It is so vague in places that you can get it to support whatever you like, and so is very easy for malicious clergy to influence simple folk into following whatever message of hate they wish to push.
Yes, the bible has some violent chapters in it, but I don't know the verses that command me to kill anyone who does not believe in god? Or that I will get 20 virgins in heaven if I die in a war against nonbelievers.
Obviously you didn't bother to read Numbers 31:18 where God instructs them to kill all the men and women who have "known" men, but keep all the virgins for themselves
Perhaps you missed Deuteronomy 13:6-16, where the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.
[2 points]3 years ago by plawlerReplyEdited 3 years ago by plawler
Actually I did read it...but I don't take that as god commanding ME to do that. I don't see in the bible where I am instructed to kill non-believers. The passage you are referring to is a history of Moses and not intended to be a blueprint of how we are supposed to live now. Where in the New Testament does it say we as Christians should kill non-believers
Since you asked so nicely... Luke 19:27, "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
[2 points]3 years ago by plawlerReplyEdited 3 years ago by plawler
Actually this is part of a parable told by Jesus, it is not a command to kill non-believers.
"Those who oppose the kingly power of Jesus will be destroyed. These are the Jerusalem leaders whose rejection of the Messiah seals the fate of their city."
Is the interpretation of that parable and it does say that non-believers will be destroyed but does not put it upon Christians themselves to do the destroying. In short it was told as a story not given as a command.
In short, I am taking it out of context, the same way you and your "Islam is a violent religion" cohorts are with quotes from the Koran. See what context does for you.
By the way... "bring them hither and slay them before me" sounds pretty much like a command to me. ;o)
No...its part of a parable, its Jesus telling a story...or in this case a prophecy. But he is not telling Christians to physically kill anyone hes just making a point.
You're obviously not reading the same words I am. I'll repeat them one more time, "bring them hither and slay them before me."
If you want to tell me that's just a metaphor and he didn't really mean it, then you must also accept that such passages in the Koran can be equally metaphorical.
Do you understand what "taken out of context" means? Jesus was telling a "story" a parable and the sentence you are quoting is part of the story. If you take the story as a whole and if you understand it is a story or parable, then you see that this is not a command such as "thou shalt no kill". And it is not a metaphor either...its one sentence that you are taking out of context as I said.
A parable is a metaphor, is it not? At the very least Jesus condoned the king in the parable saying those words... as he did not condemn them.
Oh and by the way... that "Thou shalt not kill" thing. Not so much. That's from the Old Testament, you see. The Old Testament is just a history of what the old God did with the Jewish people. Not commands.
Look, I am not your dictionary but I will try and make myself clear one more time. By definition a parable is a "fable: a short moral story (often with animal characters". A metaphor is defined as "a figure of speech in which an expression is used to refer to something that it does not literally denote in order to suggest a similarity"
Since I don't think a story is the same as a figure of speech I think you are incorrect on that.
Since I stated that "Thou shalt not kill" is a command from the bible and I did NOT say that it was in the New Testament I really don't understand your point. The Old Testament is about gods covenant with the Jews. The New Testament is the New covenant...the one that encompasses the believers in Christ.
I personally think you have a problem with religion which is fine, Im not trying to cram it down your throat. Im not a bible scholar and I think its unfortunate that you are assuming I am. Why don't you start you a poll and ask if Christianity is a violent religion?
So you are not required to go by anything in the Old Testament? What happened to an eternal unchanging God? What happened to the Bible being the "inerrant" word of God?
Inasmuch as you are never someone who says things for no reason, I am deeply wounded by your insensitive criticisms. I think I'll have to stop posting here. You won't have Peelawler to kick around any more.
I agree with you. The question Plawler is that, after reading the quran, would you worship a God who is blood thirsty? Would you worship a God who allows himself to break a promise (to them God can negate himself)? Who provides all pleasures for man alone and not women. Most written things in there revolve about the genetals of man, to keep man pleased, to keep man sustained, no self denial, and i will not quote. To allow man to control things out of emotion and not wisdom. NO love there or compassion. No place for tolerance.
But to bring things down into perspective, why would God want to inlighten folks who occupy the desert even if they are few in numbers there? NO romans, no palestines, no jews, no byzantines, no faresis, no pharos, no acts of cruelty by supreme powers. Why would God find a need to go there to find followers? Why would God need to write his words? If anything, why does God need people to carry out his wishes and not ask for them himself? Why the bullshit mentioned there is against all that is built in the humanity's subconscience on goodness.
By God they think that they are given right over mankind because they pray 5 times a day and that they can mistreat or kill people because they are now allowed to by god himself.
In Christianity we are allowed to agree on one thing and to ask God's blessing on it. We forgive because we want to be forgiven.
If you all have doubt about Jesus, Jewish or Moslem, come to Lebanon and find the Saints that still do miracles for the broken community by Jesus Christ, even if people don't believe in Christ, they are healed.
Ask and you shall receive, even if you are not of one doctrin.
But to be fair, why didn't God go to China? they have always been great in numbers.
Maybe God, as man, is racist because he is man made or maybe his words at least.
Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it. Right and wrong are laid out in both testaments. There are certain "rules" that haven't changed so just because its in the old testament does not mean that it no longer applies. The basics of right and wrong, good and evil will be the same in both books.
You know that pointing out something else is bad too doesn't accomplish anything right? It's not like his comment was "Yes it violent, but Christianity is all love". They are both violent, that doesn't make them right, or ok.
LOL...I never said that. There are plenty of examples where Christians don't act lovingly. Actually as CDog points out, I just answered the question Yes Islam is a violent religion. I still stand by that statement.
Christians not acting lovingly is not the question. Is Christianity all love? You didn't say some Muslims don't act lovingly, you said Islam is a violent religion.
[2 points]3 years ago by plawlerReplyEdited 3 years ago by plawler
Yeah, umm... actually I pointed out that by your definition both are violent religions. Who said this?
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."
Is the real Islam what is shown by the Koran? God promises to "cast terror into the hearts of those who are bent on denying the truth; strike, then, their necks!" (Koran 8.12). God instructs his Muslim followers to kill unbelievers, to capture them, to ambush them (Koran 9.5). Everything contributes to advancing the holy goal: "Strike terror into God's enemies, and your enemies" (Koran 8.60).
I'm not saying that Judaism/Christianity is/was not equally violent, but you can't deny the Koran says what it says.
Most Muslims are decent people, just trying to get by in life. There's a saying here in America: "One bad apple spoils the bunch". It holds true for the opinion of Islam. The actions of a few cast a long shadow on millions of peaceful people.
Islam in literal sense means peace or submitting the will to god. The violence aspect has been exaggerated and in a way related due to taliban enforcing laws in the pretext of Islam. People are people, religion shouldnt be judged through the actions of some extremists.
United States
Yes.
And a peaceful one.
All depends which bits you read. It is so vague in places that you can get it to support whatever you like, and so is very easy for malicious clergy to influence simple folk into following whatever message of hate they wish to push.
Asked an answered. Repeatedly.
Search function top right of page.
No more or less then any other religion, the violence has more to do with the local culture then the religion.
Yes, its a violent religion.
Yeah. A very violent religion. Sort of like this one: Genesis 19:24-25, Exodus 15:3-12, Numbers 31:1-18.
Yes, the bible has some violent chapters in it, but I don't know the verses that command me to kill anyone who does not believe in god? Or that I will get 20 virgins in heaven if I die in a war against nonbelievers.
Obviously you didn't bother to read Numbers 31:18 where God instructs them to kill all the men and women who have "known" men, but keep all the virgins for themselves
Perhaps you missed Deuteronomy 13:6-16, where the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.
Actually I did read it...but I don't take that as god commanding ME to do that. I don't see in the bible where I am instructed to kill non-believers. The passage you are referring to is a history of Moses and not intended to be a blueprint of how we are supposed to live now. Where in the New Testament does it say we as Christians should kill non-believers
Since you asked so nicely... Luke 19:27, "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
Actually this is part of a parable told by Jesus, it is not a command to kill non-believers.
"Those who oppose the kingly power of Jesus will be destroyed. These are the Jerusalem leaders whose rejection of the Messiah seals the fate of their city."
Is the interpretation of that parable and it does say that non-believers will be destroyed but does not put it upon Christians themselves to do the destroying. In short it was told as a story not given as a command.
In short, I am taking it out of context, the same way you and your "Islam is a violent religion" cohorts are with quotes from the Koran. See what context does for you.
By the way... "bring them hither and slay them before me" sounds pretty much like a command to me. ;o)
Again, your taking it out of context...
It's still given as a command.
No...its part of a parable, its Jesus telling a story...or in this case a prophecy. But he is not telling Christians to physically kill anyone hes just making a point.
You're obviously not reading the same words I am. I'll repeat them one more time, "bring them hither and slay them before me."
If you want to tell me that's just a metaphor and he didn't really mean it, then you must also accept that such passages in the Koran can be equally metaphorical.
Do you understand what "taken out of context" means? Jesus was telling a "story" a parable and the sentence you are quoting is part of the story. If you take the story as a whole and if you understand it is a story or parable, then you see that this is not a command such as "thou shalt no kill". And it is not a metaphor either...its one sentence that you are taking out of context as I said.
A parable is a metaphor, is it not? At the very least Jesus condoned the king in the parable saying those words... as he did not condemn them.
Oh and by the way... that "Thou shalt not kill" thing. Not so much. That's from the Old Testament, you see. The Old Testament is just a history of what the old God did with the Jewish people. Not commands.
Look, I am not your dictionary but I will try and make myself clear one more time. By definition a parable is a "fable: a short moral story (often with animal characters". A metaphor is defined as "a figure of speech in which an expression is used to refer to something that it does not literally denote in order to suggest a similarity"
Since I don't think a story is the same as a figure of speech I think you are incorrect on that.
Since I stated that "Thou shalt not kill" is a command from the bible and I did NOT say that it was in the New Testament I really don't understand your point. The Old Testament is about gods covenant with the Jews. The New Testament is the New covenant...the one that encompasses the believers in Christ.
I personally think you have a problem with religion which is fine, Im not trying to cram it down your throat. Im not a bible scholar and I think its unfortunate that you are assuming I am. Why don't you start you a poll and ask if Christianity is a violent religion?
imma do that...
This comment was deleted.
[-1 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyAmen.
Good, rebut.
The Torah? Which explains how Jewish community is so much similar to Islam, and also explains how all profets are somewhat man made.
This comment was deleted.
[2 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyIs that in the New Testament?
Is it a different God?
Its a different set of rules....The old rules were for the Jews, the new rules are for Christians.
So you are not required to go by anything in the Old Testament? What happened to an eternal unchanging God? What happened to the Bible being the "inerrant" word of God?
That got changed....but it is still the word of god.
My question remains. Christians are not to go by anything in the Old Testament?
This comment was deleted.
[-2 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyBut, the one constant is that you will always be an asshole!
It's 5:02 PM Pacific Time. You're still here. You're a lying asshole. Goodbye.
Inasmuch as you are never someone who says things for no reason, I am deeply wounded by your insensitive criticisms. I think I'll have to stop posting here. You won't have Peelawler to kick around any more.
I agree.
I agree with you. The question Plawler is that, after reading the quran, would you worship a God who is blood thirsty? Would you worship a God who allows himself to break a promise (to them God can negate himself)? Who provides all pleasures for man alone and not women. Most written things in there revolve about the genetals of man, to keep man pleased, to keep man sustained, no self denial, and i will not quote. To allow man to control things out of emotion and not wisdom. NO love there or compassion. No place for tolerance.
But to bring things down into perspective, why would God want to inlighten folks who occupy the desert even if they are few in numbers there? NO romans, no palestines, no jews, no byzantines, no faresis, no pharos, no acts of cruelty by supreme powers. Why would God find a need to go there to find followers? Why would God need to write his words? If anything, why does God need people to carry out his wishes and not ask for them himself? Why the bullshit mentioned there is against all that is built in the humanity's subconscience on goodness.
By God they think that they are given right over mankind because they pray 5 times a day and that they can mistreat or kill people because they are now allowed to by god himself.
In Christianity we are allowed to agree on one thing and to ask God's blessing on it. We forgive because we want to be forgiven.
If you all have doubt about Jesus, Jewish or Moslem, come to Lebanon and find the Saints that still do miracles for the broken community by Jesus Christ, even if people don't believe in Christ, they are healed.
Ask and you shall receive, even if you are not of one doctrin.
But to be fair, why didn't God go to China? they have always been great in numbers.
Maybe God, as man, is racist because he is man made or maybe his words at least.
Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.
This comment was deleted.
[2 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyThat is true...it is a history of the Jews....Its a history of the Jews and the covenant that god had with the Jews.
Okay, I just want to be clear on this. The OT contains no commandments to Christians then? Just a history, right?
Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it. Right and wrong are laid out in both testaments. There are certain "rules" that haven't changed so just because its in the old testament does not mean that it no longer applies. The basics of right and wrong, good and evil will be the same in both books.
This comment was deleted.
[1 point] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyYou know that pointing out something else is bad too doesn't accomplish anything right? It's not like his comment was "Yes it violent, but Christianity is all love". They are both violent, that doesn't make them right, or ok.
Ah but I know from past conversations with Mr. Dough that he does indeed think that Christianity is all love. ;o)
LOL...I never said that. There are plenty of examples where Christians don't act lovingly. Actually as CDog points out, I just answered the question Yes Islam is a violent religion. I still stand by that statement.
Christians not acting lovingly is not the question. Is Christianity all love? You didn't say some Muslims don't act lovingly, you said Islam is a violent religion.
As you point out several post below...Islam is a violent religion.
Yeah, umm... actually I pointed out that by your definition both are violent religions. Who said this?
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."
This comment was deleted.
[-1 points] 3 years ago by deleted user Replylol
The Real Islam is not Violent. they show it wrong! the real islam is not what is shown by Taliban or Terrorist!
Is the real Islam what is shown by the Koran? God promises to "cast terror into the hearts of those who are bent on denying the truth; strike, then, their necks!" (Koran 8.12). God instructs his Muslim followers to kill unbelievers, to capture them, to ambush them (Koran 9.5). Everything contributes to advancing the holy goal: "Strike terror into God's enemies, and your enemies" (Koran 8.60).
I'm not saying that Judaism/Christianity is/was not equally violent, but you can't deny the Koran says what it says.
And even more.
Most of us know better, Saeed. But you know how the stupid people are. They like to scream the loudest. (sigh)
Yes it is a human trait. It would explain why we need to create new gods everyday and hoist them high as most true.
Most Muslims are decent people, just trying to get by in life. There's a saying here in America: "One bad apple spoils the bunch". It holds true for the opinion of Islam. The actions of a few cast a long shadow on millions of peaceful people.
True that Muslims are some decent, and trying to get by in life as Christains, Jews and Budists.
try ksa.
Islam in literal sense means peace or submitting the will to god. The violence aspect has been exaggerated and in a way related due to taliban enforcing laws in the pretext of Islam. People are people, religion shouldnt be judged through the actions of some extremists.
extremists didn't come out of the blue sky, they had to come from someplace. Extremism had to be built in them while in infant phase.
This comment was deleted by nightcrawlsin .
[1 point] 3 years ago by45% of the people actually answered yes to this question... *shakes head*
Idiots exist in EVERY religion. That does not mean you should judge an entire religion based on the ignorance of a few.