| Guantánamo Bay prison should be closed. |
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Asked 3 years ago
by ask001  Canada |
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About
Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for.
adamgrey37@yahoo.com
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18 Points
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it's a wart on the rear of the USA - it should be closed immediately.
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You, Sir, are that wart.
no, sir - you are. And thank goodness you and your ilk were voted out and are now overrun but the majority of intellectuals.
Don't forget, his ilk couldn't even get a majority in Congress on their own strengths. It took DeLay's illegal (according to both the DOJ and Texas state law) manipulation of Texas voting districts to give the neo-cons their 'mandate'. And even though DeLay managed to replace 5 Dems with 5 Reps, a 10 vote advantage, most of the Bush domestic platform squeaked by with fewer than a five-vote majority.
Please move back to Canada.
It is what is helping to keep the U.S. safe. These terrorists will only be back attacking us. Obama is showing what an idiot he is already.
it's what's keeping the US looking like idiots and terrorist. It's fuel feeding the embers.
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Bullshit.
is that the best ya got? lol
That one word covers it pretty well.
well, if nothing else - it reflects your intellectual capacity
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[-3 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyRespectfully, it is possible for it to be keeping the US safe, and for it to be making the US look like idiots and terrorists. You can decide if it's worth the trade-off.
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[1 point] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyBush is the least respected man in the world right now. I'm sure world consensus agrees.
Technically, he probably would be the most disrespected. (22% of your country respects him.)
Bullshit.
is that all ya got? lol... facts are facts and your obscenities won't change it
It really is impossible to believably claim the moral high ground if you are doing what you denounce in others. If we insist on being thought better than terrorists, it would behoove us to quit acting as terrorists.
Seems to me there are a hell of a lot of evil "Christians" over there.
What in the world does that mean?
He is talking about becoming that which we abhor.
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And, what, pray tell, are we doing at Gitmo that we denounce in others? In what way are we acting like terrorists? I would suggest to you that we are probably the most humane jailers of terrorists in the world.
I beg to differ - Dutch jails are way more humane, Guantanamo is in insult to humanity it should be closed immediately, the inmates should get a fair trial and and those responsable for Guantanamo should get a trial of their own.
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[0 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyThe whole idea to locate that prison in Guantanamo was to deny the inmates certain rights. It is an insult because people do not get fair trials, methods of interrogation are being used that many feel cross the border with torture, the secrecy surrounding Guantanamo can only mean that the US has things to hide. When there is no control over prisons the most horrible things happen, look at that other great example called Abu Ghraib. In the end such human right violations always backfire.
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[2 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[0 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyIf that is the case (which I again seriously doubt) than all American prisons should be closed. I do think there is a lot wrong with the rest of the US prison and juridicial system as well.
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[2 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyNo of course that is true, my response was a bit radical to counter your remark about Americna prisons being 10 times worse than Guantanamo (which is a living hell already). I do not believe that this is the case so for me the solution of closing all US prisons is hypothetical as well. What I think should happen is to base the US prison system more on usefull sentences instead of revenge. And those that have to be put in jail should be treated humanely and not like dirt.
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[1 point] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyFirst of all, most of these "scumbags" are not yet convicted criminals and they are innocent people until proven guilty. Calling them scumbags only helps to dehumanize them which makes it easier to treat them badly.
But then my main point who do you think made these clips? Are these examples of free and objectve journalism or where they issued by the USA? I do not want to say Guantanamo is as bad as Hitlers death camps, but just to let you know, Hitler issued some propaganda movies in which he was able to have even death camps which main objective after all was to mass murder its inmates look "good and innocent". And people believed it. Do you seriously believe that under Bush I as an independant journalist would be allowed entrance to Guantanamo and speak with prisoners of choice?
If the place is really that good I wonder what you think of such things as near drownings as interrogation method and structural sleep deprivation to make prisoners more complient?
And what do you think of testimonials of former workers at Guantanamo ,who decided they could no longer bring the job in line with their personal ethics?
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/23/vandeveld/
Many are from Yemen, who has refused to accept them.
No one has been drowned bub.
They eat better than their jailers.
You are very uninformed.
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[1 point] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyYet when American terrorists are jailed in foreign countries, we go bananas if they are treated the same. BIG ol' double standard, go figure!
What American terrorists are you referring to?
There are no American terrorist? Where have you been living? Under a rock?
Again, What American terrorists are you referring to?
Triston Jay Amero
James Dalton Bell
Lucas John Helder
Joseph Konopka
Timothy McVeigh
Andrew Mickel
Robert Vernon Spears
Not to mention the CIA in Central America.
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Not to mention Canadians in the USA.
How many of these are jailed in foreign countries?
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Beg all you want, but just how many terrorists are in Dutch jails, and would your country please volunteer to house these murderers? I am sure Obama would jump at the opportunity to let you have them.
We don't have that many though we do house some of the people convicted of war crimes in former Yugoslavia. I do not see how the number of terrorists plays a role here. Anyway the Netherlands is a much smaller country so it is not strange our number of prisons is much smaller.
By the way you call the detainees in Guantanamo murderers, some of them certainly are, but most of the people held there are only suspects untill now and thus innocent until proven guilty. There are also examples of people who have been held there for years while they were in fact innocent.
So I rest my case, Guantanamo is a shame on the US (as well as on those European countries that aided secret US transports to it), I am very glad your new president is going to change this.
I think sending these individuals to the Hague is a very reasonable suggestion, if an agreement could be worked out.
Our new President may yet change his mind.
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[-1 points] 3 years ago byhumane like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67IAJEclKv8
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[1 point] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyOnly those pictures were verified to be genuine, those who took the photo's were confident enough they did the "right thing", to publish them. There have been plenty more accounts of torture after that, maybe you need to upgrade your clearance a little?
We waterboard people, make them listen to Britney Spears all day, and hold them for years on end without charges. Hearsay is permitted as evidence in closed trials. Yes, we're really quite just and humane, aren't we Hend.
waterboarding reminded me of one of the tortures of the Spanish Inquisition. real humane, for a psycho sadist kinda person.
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[-2 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyAnd send them to flight school? :-)
No thanks!
Except for the ones who were poor shepherds who got railroaded to gitmo just so the base commander could make a quota.
Read "Lone Survivor" to learn how these "poor shepherds" fit into the big picture.
Or read The Men Who Stare at Goats.
http://www.amazon.com/Men-Who-Stare-Goats/dp/0743270606/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232642515&sr=8-1
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[1 point] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyI watched a documentary on the web at this site: http://torturingdemocracy.org/ While watching the movie I saw enough uninformed rounding up of "suspects" who were considered suspects merely because of the part of the world where they were found and due to language difficulties they probably couldn't come up with watertight alibis that explained exactly where there were on 9/11 as easily verifiable as the data you or I might use to prove where we were on the eve of Obama's inauguration. Watch the movie and then tell me you don't follow my allusion.
Do you really think the world believes the US one word about how it treats its prisoners in Guantanamo in accordance with human rights after we saw what happened in Abu Ghraib?
Although many of those prisoners may deserve to be locked up for the rest of their lives, I hope and Im pretty optimistic that the US remembers the principles that made it a role model for other democracies on this planet.
Well, do the human thing and volunteer to keep these terrorists in prisons in your country. You would undoubtedly release them for humanitarian reasons and to show their appreciation they might fly a couple of planes into a couple of your buildings.
Alleged terrorist, after 5 years most of them have been released and of those left only a few have been charged. Do you think this is reasonable?
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[0 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyI read something like that as well, one guy blew himself up in Iraq or Afghanistan. Maybe you could check wikipedia?
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[1 point] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyBecause out of the 500 you let go, 499 did not do anything.
Wrong, several dozen have been recaptured or killed performing terrorist acts.
Would you mind to provide some details? I only heard of one.
Switzerland (and other European countries) already said they would help close guantanamo by taking over some of the prisoners although, as other countries state, it obviously is an American problem.
The USA is not a democracy. It is a Republic. In fact, there are no democracies on this planet.
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I notice the cowards on this forum are afraid for the other forum members to read dissenting comments so they moderate them down.
Yes, talking about you Dauguy and WishingforSun, a couple of losers whose only pastime is criticizing anything US or Bush/Cheney.
I only arrow things down that have little or no intellectual value. Take, for instance, the comment "Bulls***." It contains no logical support for your argument. Since it's unhelpful, it gets an arrow down. Comparing Obama to Hitler because they're both impassioned public speakers gets an arrow down. If you make an actual valid point, no matter how idiotic, I have the choice to leave it alone if I don't agree (and I almost never do) or to arrow it up if I think it's interesting.
And I feel bad for Bush, even though I think he was a pretty terrible president. I hated his policies from the start and thought his resumé lacked everything I would have asked for in someone applying for the job. But look at the things that happened on his watch. Some of them weren't his fault, and others were. Either way, his job is really rather thankless in a lot of ways, and if you compare pictures of him in 2000 with pictures of him today, he looks like he's aged twenty years. Watching some of his speeches in recent years, you can see that he's trying to deal with so much information at once, he's barely able to concentrate on the task at hand, hence the stuttering, the drifting off, and the idiocy. Being President and "leader of the free world" must be horribly stressful and overwhelming. And now he's going to be a villain and a buffoon for all of history. Who could face that? You couldn't pay me enough to take his job.
This is also why I couldn't bring myself to vote for McCain, though I think he's a wonderful, intelligent patriot. He wandered around the set during the debates! He couldn't handle that pressure, let alone leading the nation through one of the most challenging times in history. Like it or not, Obama's what we got. Call it the lesser of 2 evils if you want. But either way, deal with it. Cuz complaining is not going to change it.
An excellent post, in my humble opinion.
Thanks. It felt pretty good. I'm extra-opinionated today. :)
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[0 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyTop Secret clearance?
Who needs a top secret clearance to know right from wrong?
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[0 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyAre you trying to tell us you have Top Secret clearance?
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[1 point] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[0 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[0 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyDid you understand anything Desmond tried to tell you?
It is still cowardly. You took time to expound on your disagreement and therefore the moderating down was not necessary. It indicates that you are afraid for others to see those comments.
I only arrow down things that are racist in intent, and not even all of those. But maybe you said something to piss of April? She likes to lurk and do that.
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[1 point] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyI once heard of a rural Irishman telling a lost tourist asking for directions, "You don't want to start from here" :)
Ideally you would choose that G-bay did not exist, but it does, and wishing will not make it (and more importantly the people in it) go away.
It could be said it was created in haste, but I think it would be just as big a mistake to close it in haste.
First come up with a good, workable plan to deal (fairly) with the inmates. Then put that plan into action in a reasonable time frame.
Two wrongs do not make a right, and closing it for the sake of a "quick win" on the election promises is no way to deal with such an important issue.
What would you have done?
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[0 points] 3 years ago by deleted user ReplyHad they been British prisoners, and I had some say, they would have ended up in South Georgia, not cuba.
Love to see them try to escape from there, you would not even need to build a jail, just airdrop in a few tons of food now and again.
Of course that is just the fantasy answer, in reality they would have had to go through the regular legal system, and sadly many if not most would have gotten away for lack of evidence.
It is a tough call, and it probably seemed the right thing to do to many of us, me included, at the time.
I guess history will be the final judge.
Wow, lots of people interested in this one.
Just as a matter of record, Guantanamo has been order closed, though not immediately:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/us/politics/22gitmo.html?_r=1&em
Thank you, just checked the white house website as well
Sec. 3. Closure of Detention Facilities at Guantánamo. The detention facilities at Guantánamo for individuals covered by this order shall be closed as soon as practicable, and no later than 1 year from the date of this order. If any individuals covered by this order remain in detention at Guantánamo at the time of closure of those detention facilities, they shall be returned to their home country, released, transferred to a third country, or transferred to another United States detention facility in a manner consistent with law and the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States. -- http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ClosureOfGuantanamoDetentionFacilities/
Hope Canada volunteers to take some of those poor mistreated prisoners.
So you guys screw up and the rest of the world has to pay to fix your mess?