I assumed that much - based on the other questions.
=)
Although I tend to think freedom of speech has to be taken as far as possible, I have to say information and knowledge is the basis of "speech".
What I am trying to say is that the construct a government puts before the eyes of its citizens manipulates their ideology.
For example:
I don't care about Saddam... but where are the "fracking" weapons of mass destruction that were used as an excuse to fight the Sovereign Nation of Iraq after some angry (and stupid) people of the Sovereign Nation of Afghanistan attack US home land?
This kind of disinformation practice manipulates public opinion and demonize groups or entire countries based on lies (or maybe incompetent Intelligence).
I disagree - I agree that people can be manipulated, but people are not stupid. If they are exposed to a wide range of ideas and thoughts, people will seek the truth. They cannot seek the truth if they are not free to do so and that is why it is essential that the media remain unregulated.
As to the weapons, I agree that it looks like there may have been no weapons... but we dont know... I mean... It could be that Saddam sent them to Syria (he had all the warning in the world that this was going to happen)
The way I see it, people, sometimes, have a hard time to understand how stupid their actions (and thoughts) are proving themselves.
Sometimes, from within, is very difficult to change...
But I understand you completely.
The thing, on mass destruction weapons is: It was very bad that the military could not produce the necessary evidence to prove the amazing doomsday machine Saddam was hidding.
I am glad that you would discuss these things with me. To begin with, I think the most important thing is for people to have an intellegent discussion about serious matters. That is the most important thing.
I agree that people have a hard time seeing outside their own established framework, but in my mind, that is all the more reason to have no regulations of speech, because people need to have their views challenged and there should be nothing stopping anyone from raising their own views.
As to the weapons... i dont know how they F'd that one up... but im just saying, its easy to Monday Morning Quarterback... its easy to say things in retrospect...
Au contraire, not far enough! The very reverse is happening: freedom of speech is being whittled away more & more as various political smokescreens are blinding persons' common sense.
Id say we need to be careful not let that happen, but you would have to allege specific facts of an instance of said encroachments of free speech before I would be able to say whether i think they are encroaching too far.
I agree, the PATRIOT Act goes too far. Im not sure if thats so much a speech issue as it is a privacy issue. But it does go too in invading our privacy.
I think that liberalism is proving to be far more destructive to free speech than the Patriot Act. As examples I would point to the many instances of liberal students storming the stage with the intent of intimidating speakers who have a conservative point of view. True freedom of speech allows the expression of ALL points of view – not just the ones supported by the majority (or loudest). You don’t agree? Try expressing an idea that’s not politically correct and see how long it takes before you’re attacked in some way. The “conversation” will go from factual to emotional almost instantly.
Someone said that a free press is important. I agree, but I’m not sure that I would any longer describe what we have in America as free press. Most of the media is bought and paid for by one entity or another.
True true.. I agree with what you said entirely until the bit about the press not being free in the U.S. - it is free, but the problem is, not everyone has equal acess to it. But the issue is, its hard or impossible to ensure equal acess to the media without destroying the very conception of a completely free press. But, there is nothing (besides perhaps) monetary concerns, preventing you from publisizing your own thoughts. But thats the free-market... You can always have a grass-roots campaign.
I agree though with your suggestion about liberal students. It is ironic that the most "open minded peoples" can be the most cloesed
I am Brazilian and have a brother and sister born in United States.
Here in Brazil the State does it in the name of crime or, in the absence of crime, in the name of some other thing at hand.
Most of the people I know became cinics and just say "It was always like that" or "I don't see the point of being so concerned with something we can't change".
I am Brazilian and have a brother and sister born in USA.
We have freedom of speech here - or so they say.
The thing is: we make speeches about our thoughts and most of it comes from our acquired knowledge and information that were given to us through corporate media.
Freedom of speech is not enough... countries should have impartial not compromised journalism and education.
That requires a free media without government restrictions on what can be said. (i.e. corporate media cant be regulated without destroying freedom of speech and opinion).
I am American, and I do believe that you are right, but I STRONGLY believe that in an open market of ideas, the best ideas will win in the end.
I don't know if the best ideas always win in the end... but the best ideas - like corporate media not being regulated through political pressure or even through professional ambition - have taken so much casualties I get somewhat sad.
Ethical behavior is less important than acquiring power?
Government is not the only thing that can restrict, or even destroy, a free press. If a particular newspaper, TV station, or radio station leans either to the political left or right that in itself is a restriction and therefore a hindrance to the idea of a free press. I’m so tired of newscasters who mask their own political agendas by presenting them as “news”. Just give me the true facts. I’ll digest them and come to my own conclusions.
Freedom of Speech in America means that the government bodies do not have the right to censor speech. I think American free speech is just fine, and is one freedom I will fight tooth and nail to maintain.
Yes. Wow hot topic. I think as Americans we have the right to say what we believe. Right or Wrong. Left or Right. But just because we can do something doesn't mean we should do it. I think we have a responsibility for our words.
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NOT AT ALL!!!
I agree... but I got into an argument with a French girl the other day...
I assumed that much - based on the other questions.
=)
Although I tend to think freedom of speech has to be taken as far as possible, I have to say information and knowledge is the basis of "speech".
What I am trying to say is that the construct a government puts before the eyes of its citizens manipulates their ideology.
For example:
I don't care about Saddam... but where are the "fracking" weapons of mass destruction that were used as an excuse to fight the Sovereign Nation of Iraq after some angry (and stupid) people of the Sovereign Nation of Afghanistan attack US home land?
This kind of disinformation practice manipulates public opinion and demonize groups or entire countries based on lies (or maybe incompetent Intelligence).
Do you agree?
I disagree - I agree that people can be manipulated, but people are not stupid. If they are exposed to a wide range of ideas and thoughts, people will seek the truth. They cannot seek the truth if they are not free to do so and that is why it is essential that the media remain unregulated.
As to the weapons, I agree that it looks like there may have been no weapons... but we dont know... I mean... It could be that Saddam sent them to Syria (he had all the warning in the world that this was going to happen)
You can be right.
In my point of view is different.
The way I see it, people, sometimes, have a hard time to understand how stupid their actions (and thoughts) are proving themselves.
Sometimes, from within, is very difficult to change...
But I understand you completely.
The thing, on mass destruction weapons is: It was very bad that the military could not produce the necessary evidence to prove the amazing doomsday machine Saddam was hidding.
=)
I am glad that you would discuss these things with me. To begin with, I think the most important thing is for people to have an intellegent discussion about serious matters. That is the most important thing.
I agree that people have a hard time seeing outside their own established framework, but in my mind, that is all the more reason to have no regulations of speech, because people need to have their views challenged and there should be nothing stopping anyone from raising their own views.
As to the weapons... i dont know how they F'd that one up... but im just saying, its easy to Monday Morning Quarterback... its easy to say things in retrospect...
The UN Arms inspectors were saying those things ("no evidence") at the time. It's a matter of whom one chose to listen to.
True.
And I couldn't agree more!
Diversity of opinion is always good for the nature of Discussions.
Best regards and good night.
It's 00:27 here and I am wasted.
Good to chat with ya!
Bruno Accioly
www.brunoaccioly.com.br
www.designios.com.br
www.twitter.com/baccioly
Oh... and sorry if my english is not that good.
=)
Au contraire, not far enough! The very reverse is happening: freedom of speech is being whittled away more & more as various political smokescreens are blinding persons' common sense.
I totally agree. Freedom of speech, as well as other constitutionally protect rights, are being whittled away in the name of fighting terror.
Id say we need to be careful not let that happen, but you would have to allege specific facts of an instance of said encroachments of free speech before I would be able to say whether i think they are encroaching too far.
Please see the Patriot Act, Lucas :P
I agree, the PATRIOT Act goes too far. Im not sure if thats so much a speech issue as it is a privacy issue. But it does go too in invading our privacy.
If you read my initial post, I was not only talking about speech, but also other rights.
I think that liberalism is proving to be far more destructive to free speech than the Patriot Act. As examples I would point to the many instances of liberal students storming the stage with the intent of intimidating speakers who have a conservative point of view. True freedom of speech allows the expression of ALL points of view – not just the ones supported by the majority (or loudest). You don’t agree? Try expressing an idea that’s not politically correct and see how long it takes before you’re attacked in some way. The “conversation” will go from factual to emotional almost instantly.
Someone said that a free press is important. I agree, but I’m not sure that I would any longer describe what we have in America as free press. Most of the media is bought and paid for by one entity or another.
True true.. I agree with what you said entirely until the bit about the press not being free in the U.S. - it is free, but the problem is, not everyone has equal acess to it. But the issue is, its hard or impossible to ensure equal acess to the media without destroying the very conception of a completely free press. But, there is nothing (besides perhaps) monetary concerns, preventing you from publisizing your own thoughts. But thats the free-market... You can always have a grass-roots campaign.
I agree though with your suggestion about liberal students. It is ironic that the most "open minded peoples" can be the most cloesed
I am Brazilian and have a brother and sister born in United States.
Here in Brazil the State does it in the name of crime or, in the absence of crime, in the name of some other thing at hand.
Most of the people I know became cinics and just say "It was always like that" or "I don't see the point of being so concerned with something we can't change".
I can relate to your situation.
Hear hear! Too much self-censorship
I agree, the only way to provide for an enlightened populace is to ensure absolute freedom of political expression
Are you from America? Most people without this right would say yes
I am Brazilian and have a brother and sister born in USA.
We have freedom of speech here - or so they say.
The thing is: we make speeches about our thoughts and most of it comes from our acquired knowledge and information that were given to us through corporate media.
Freedom of speech is not enough... countries should have impartial not compromised journalism and education.
Too theoretical?
=)
That requires a free media without government restrictions on what can be said. (i.e. corporate media cant be regulated without destroying freedom of speech and opinion).
I am American, and I do believe that you are right, but I STRONGLY believe that in an open market of ideas, the best ideas will win in the end.
An Idealist!
I don't know if the best ideas always win in the end... but the best ideas - like corporate media not being regulated through political pressure or even through professional ambition - have taken so much casualties I get somewhat sad.
Ethical behavior is less important than acquiring power?
I won't post that question...
Depressing thoughts =(
=D
Government is not the only thing that can restrict, or even destroy, a free press. If a particular newspaper, TV station, or radio station leans either to the political left or right that in itself is a restriction and therefore a hindrance to the idea of a free press. I’m so tired of newscasters who mask their own political agendas by presenting them as “news”. Just give me the true facts. I’ll digest them and come to my own conclusions.
Freedom of Speech in America means that the government bodies do not have the right to censor speech. I think American free speech is just fine, and is one freedom I will fight tooth and nail to maintain.
Yes. Wow hot topic. I think as Americans we have the right to say what we believe. Right or Wrong. Left or Right. But just because we can do something doesn't mean we should do it. I think we have a responsibility for our words.