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You should look into this. There is some form of socialist care in every western country, and every industrialized Eastern country, in the world. Britain has long waiting lists for elective surgeries and other non-necessary procedures, Taiwan, Japan, Switzerland, and Germany don't. America is the only industrialized country with no form of universal health care and a significant portion of its population without any health care at all. It is the ONLY nation where hundreds of thousands of INSURED people lose their homes and are driven into bankruptcy by medical costs. It is the ONLY industrialized country with a for-profit healthcare system.
Yes we are the wealthiest. Should we be proud that our citizens lose everything to healthcare costs, even while insured? That one in three to one in five (depends on whose figures you use) children go to bed hungry? That our life expectancy is DECREASING? That our inflation rate is headed upupup? That our citizens are losing their homes in near-record numbers? Sure, we have a huge military presence worldwide. Is THAT to be the only thing we measure our success by?
You PROUD that Americans are living worse than their parents?
I know what you meant. Social healthcare works great and saves lives, families and money. It gives us a longer life expectancy too. I'm amazed that the USA hasn't figured that out like most other modern, industrialized nations.
[2 points]4 years ago by HauliReplyEdited 4 years ago by Hauli
So Tim - then the government shouldn't be required to provide you with roads, schools, garbage pick up? etc, etc - you can manage that all yourself? Your fortunate - but not everyone is independently wealthy. I think the government has a responsibility to provide for the health of it's citizens. I would rather pay taxes for that than illegal invasions and the death and destruction of other countries.
Imagine the gaul of some of these communist sympathizers thinking that citizens should have the right to share in the tax revenues they pay. How can we afford to keep killing all the towel heads if we spend our hard earned dollars on crap like our own families?
[1 point]4 years ago by HauliReplyEdited 4 years ago by Hauli
I don't know of anyone that has had that problem. Wingnut once showed me an article about it, and I have heard of that, but that's about the closest I've ever come to seeing it actually happen.
I agree with the a more American approach to Universal Health care, as proposed by Hillary Clinton or Obama, which still has a private industry and not the government actually running the health care sector. Government run industry could never compare to the faster pasted evolution of the private sector, which is continuously innovating and constantly progressing.
43,000,000 Americans are uninsured - I think it's sick when only the wealthy can prevent and fight against illness and the rest have to suffer. It's not right.
The number of people uninsured has nothing to do with this discussion. We are talking about health care not health care insurance. See my comment bellow as to why I think we need to get away from health insurance and to a first person payer system not a third person payer system like we have or a single payer system like is proposed.
Did you know that half of all bankruptcies - about 700,000 a year - are a result of medical costs? And that 75% of those people had health care insurance before they became ill?
People seem to think the government is a separate evil entity that will abuse our trust, except when it comes to warfare. I say WE are the government, and it is a matter of public will what kind of services we receive. Time to stop helping corporations empire build and take care of our own instead.
Yes. Socialist healthcare means healthcare for all. Many people stay on disability longer than they need to, longer than they would if healthcare were free. Many people on disability would be delighted to work at a piddly-ass job instead of freeloading off the state, but do you know why they take every measure to stay on disability far longer than they need to do? It's because they don't want to die younger than they would if they had decent medical care. Disability pays for that, it pays for decent medical care, so people stay on disability decades longer than they might if they had socialist healthcare in their country. This isn't a figment of my imagination either, this is well-documented fact. If millions could get decent healthcare they would get off disability, and this savings alone would pay for a large percentage of everyone else's healthcare.
Sure a lot of people on disability work on the side despite the fact it's illegal to continuously earn more than $900 per month, but they need the medical benefits that come with the disability check, so they are really between a rock and a hard place. If we had socialist healthcare people would never find themselves in such potentially compromising legal positions, The system we have now only benefits the rich, the lucky, and those who tolerate working in barbaric sweatshops just for continuing health benefits. In short, the system as it exists today, sucks bigtime.
Kudos to your brother, He is a good example of what I mean ... being willing to work but just taking disability because he needs it for the medical bills.
I don't think a single payer system is the way to go, that would be the government paying for health care for everyone, but I think we need to get away from the third party payer system that we have. The third party payer, the insurance company, takes the consumer out of a lot of the decision making process especially on the money side of things and therefore we are no longer cost conscious.
I think if hospitals had to start competing for my business costs would come down and service would go up. But the way it is now I really don't care how much the procedure costs as my insurance pays it and I am only responsible for the deductible therefor the medical provider has no incentive to be competitive on a cost basis nor on a service basis as I go wherever my insurance is accepted.
[2 points]4 years ago by zandtReplyEdited 4 years ago by zandt
United States
Everyone deserves quality health care.
i totally agree.
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[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyYou should look into this. There is some form of socialist care in every western country, and every industrialized Eastern country, in the world. Britain has long waiting lists for elective surgeries and other non-necessary procedures, Taiwan, Japan, Switzerland, and Germany don't. America is the only industrialized country with no form of universal health care and a significant portion of its population without any health care at all. It is the ONLY nation where hundreds of thousands of INSURED people lose their homes and are driven into bankruptcy by medical costs. It is the ONLY industrialized country with a for-profit healthcare system.
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[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyNo, just the only INDUSTRIALIZED country. Try reading all the words.
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[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyYes we are the wealthiest. Should we be proud that our citizens lose everything to healthcare costs, even while insured? That one in three to one in five (depends on whose figures you use) children go to bed hungry? That our life expectancy is DECREASING? That our inflation rate is headed upupup? That our citizens are losing their homes in near-record numbers? Sure, we have a huge military presence worldwide. Is THAT to be the only thing we measure our success by?
You PROUD that Americans are living worse than their parents?
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[1 point] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyI support universal health care.
same deal pretty much. i just meant, free healthcare provided by the government for everyone.
I know what you meant. Social healthcare works great and saves lives, families and money. It gives us a longer life expectancy too. I'm amazed that the USA hasn't figured that out like most other modern, industrialized nations.
Why does that amaze you? ;-)
Yea, you're right.
exactly. hopefully it happens soon.
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[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyOdd. Didn't have that problem when I went to Great Britain and fell ill...
Even odder that we don't seem to have those same problems with our socialized police force, socialized fire department, socialized libraries...
So Tim - then the government shouldn't be required to provide you with roads, schools, garbage pick up? etc, etc - you can manage that all yourself? Your fortunate - but not everyone is independently wealthy. I think the government has a responsibility to provide for the health of it's citizens. I would rather pay taxes for that than illegal invasions and the death and destruction of other countries.
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[1 point] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyGee...even GOVERNMENT is socialized...and doesn't congress get full medical? =D
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[-1 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyDuh yourself. I have worked all my life, never collected unemployment, and have my own business on the side. Oh, and have TWO college degrees.
In the "olden" days congress wasn't a paid position.
I cordially invite you to take your patronizing attitude and stick it.
You forgot that commie library system.
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[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyImagine the gaul of some of these communist sympathizers thinking that citizens should have the right to share in the tax revenues they pay. How can we afford to keep killing all the towel heads if we spend our hard earned dollars on crap like our own families?
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[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
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[-1 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[1 point] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
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[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyI don't know of anyone that has had that problem. Wingnut once showed me an article about it, and I have heard of that, but that's about the closest I've ever come to seeing it actually happen.
Me too. My mom's had cancer twice - both time it was treated immediately.
I agree with the a more American approach to Universal Health care, as proposed by Hillary Clinton or Obama, which still has a private industry and not the government actually running the health care sector. Government run industry could never compare to the faster pasted evolution of the private sector, which is continuously innovating and constantly progressing.
This comment was deleted by zandt .
[0 points] 4 years ago byThis comment was deleted.
[-1 points] 4 years ago by deleted user Reply43,000,000 Americans are uninsured - I think it's sick when only the wealthy can prevent and fight against illness and the rest have to suffer. It's not right.
The number of people uninsured has nothing to do with this discussion. We are talking about health care not health care insurance. See my comment bellow as to why I think we need to get away from health insurance and to a first person payer system not a third person payer system like we have or a single payer system like is proposed.
This comment was deleted.
[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyDid you know that half of all bankruptcies - about 700,000 a year - are a result of medical costs? And that 75% of those people had health care insurance before they became ill?
http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/hlthaff.w5.63/DC1
People seem to think the government is a separate evil entity that will abuse our trust, except when it comes to warfare. I say WE are the government, and it is a matter of public will what kind of services we receive. Time to stop helping corporations empire build and take care of our own instead.
This comment was deleted.
[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[1 point] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[2 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[2 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyYes. Socialist healthcare means healthcare for all. Many people stay on disability longer than they need to, longer than they would if healthcare were free. Many people on disability would be delighted to work at a piddly-ass job instead of freeloading off the state, but do you know why they take every measure to stay on disability far longer than they need to do? It's because they don't want to die younger than they would if they had decent medical care. Disability pays for that, it pays for decent medical care, so people stay on disability decades longer than they might if they had socialist healthcare in their country. This isn't a figment of my imagination either, this is well-documented fact. If millions could get decent healthcare they would get off disability, and this savings alone would pay for a large percentage of everyone else's healthcare.
Vote for Obama. I am.
This comment was deleted.
[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplySure a lot of people on disability work on the side despite the fact it's illegal to continuously earn more than $900 per month, but they need the medical benefits that come with the disability check, so they are really between a rock and a hard place. If we had socialist healthcare people would never find themselves in such potentially compromising legal positions, The system we have now only benefits the rich, the lucky, and those who tolerate working in barbaric sweatshops just for continuing health benefits. In short, the system as it exists today, sucks bigtime.
Kudos to your brother, He is a good example of what I mean ... being willing to work but just taking disability because he needs it for the medical bills.
I don't think a single payer system is the way to go, that would be the government paying for health care for everyone, but I think we need to get away from the third party payer system that we have. The third party payer, the insurance company, takes the consumer out of a lot of the decision making process especially on the money side of things and therefore we are no longer cost conscious.
I think if hospitals had to start competing for my business costs would come down and service would go up. But the way it is now I really don't care how much the procedure costs as my insurance pays it and I am only responsible for the deductible therefor the medical provider has no incentive to be competitive on a cost basis nor on a service basis as I go wherever my insurance is accepted.
This comment was deleted.
[1 point] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyQuality health care will go far away when we go socialist 'communist' healthcare.
Ya, it would be a real drag for the citizens to share in the tax revenue that we all pay.
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[0 points] 4 years ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[1 point] 4 years ago by deleted user Replyglad that people got into this debate, i figured it would be split.