| By % the US prison population is much (about 5 times depending on the stats used) higher than other civilised countries. Why? |
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By % the US prison population is much (about 5 times depending on the stats used) higher than other civilised countries. Why?
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Asked 241 days ago
by Asroc  United Kingdom |
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About
Fun-loving, patriotic, Englishman with a warped sense of humour.
It professional of many years.
Hobbies include games, sci-fi and fantasy, military history, live music.
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11 Points
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US courts pass longer sentences.
The majority of the difference between Europe and the US on this point is made up with a certain category of addicted people whom Europeans are tending more to view as sick and in need of medical treatment, rather than incarceration. And that view seems all the more so, when they have committed no other offences. The US are still definitely more hardline with addicts - even with those who've done nothing particularly to anyone else; and sometimes at the expense of punishing violent offenders! However, violent offences and menacing antisocial behaviour are increasingly what people want to be protected from here, when punishment space is at a premium - particularly with the recent spate of knife offences here in the UK. There seems to be quite a difference in the public perception of violence in the US, as opposed to here. Indeed the US seems to be far more tolerant of aggression and less tolerant of addicts. And as there are many more addicts than aggressors that explains why the US penal system is the world's most populous per capita. All of which explains why one chose "A Different Reason"
I think you are absolutely right. Drug convictions are, by far the largest group incarcerated.
This comment was deleted.
[0 points] 241 days ago by deleted user ReplyAn interesting thought. But, I wonder if the facts support that idea. They do seem to support this: According to a recent issue of The Economist from the weekend before last (from which I developed my reasoning) it is a fact that around half a million addicts are locked up in the states every year. And 1 in every 5 American Black men are incarcerated at some point in their lives due solely to tougher laws against addicts.
It would definitely be interesting to see the proportion of persons who are locked up for various offences and compare them across continents and the leading countries of the world. As it would definitely give a very interesting insight into how different cultures view offences etc.
I don't think toughness on drug related offences is the only reason. I also think the society in the US is much less social, meaning that those who are weaker or marginalized (like a large proportion of Afro Americans) get into trouble, without healthcare and housing much easier than in Europe. Therefore the divide between the have's and the have nots is bigger in the States and the situation for the have nots is much more desperate. It is well known that people who feel they have nothing to lose will resort to crime, drug dealing etc to support themselves. We in Europe might be "socialistically pampering" a lot of "lazy" people in the eyes of some capitalists, but fact is that our system works to keep society much nicer for all. Couple that to the tougher punishments in the US and no wonder they have full prisons.
People in the U.S. tend to not think before they act, causing their actions to be stupid. Not saying all Americans of coarse but just stating our crimes maybe high in %'s but when you desifer down what the crimes were its rediculous.
I have to agree with phase and pollewop and the philanthropist. minority populations are over represented in our prisons, over 50% of those incarcerated are for drug related offenses, it is estimated that 16%-33% of those in prison have mental illness, poverty prevents proper defense, and with our strong christian beliefs, we truly like to punish people. rehabilitation is out of the question.
Aust. Here, people who are drug addicts or alcoholics are thought of as having health problems.
If a drug addict stole to support their drug habit and they are remorseful and can convince the Magistrate (Judge) they will try and get off the drugs they will receive help and probably only have a conviction recorded for the theft and no jail time.
Yes but here in the US our drug addicts don't just steal. Here they get caught up in gangs that murder each other and innocent people as well. The ones who do steal do so repeatedly. They get high and beat their spouses and their children, sometimes to death.
The problem is not just drug addiction its also culture. Here in the US and especially in big cities, the gangs control a large portion of the drug trade. These gangs survive by intimidation, threat, and violence. While addiction can possibly be seen as an illness, the violence that goes along with the drugs cant be tolerated.
For the most part I am anti-drug. But I can see how the possibility of legalizing drugs might take the profit out of dealing and might take away the lifeblood of the street gangs, the mob and the mafia and there is some potential for making things safer for those of us who don't mess with drugs. But the fact is that the way the laws are set up right now, most of the drug offenders in jail are there for being a part of the violence not for being a simple addict.
Archaic Drug Laws
Amazing.
Perhaps the fact that prisons are for-profit centers and a multi-BILLION dollar industry. Investors sit on Wall Street. Companies get products made for cents an hour, just like in Third World countries.
FOLLOW THE MONEY.
The rest of it, drug incarcerations and all, are just means by which this industry maintains its profits.
Your facts are correct, but your cause and effect are backward. First, there was a demand for more prisons. Since government programs are usually filled with incompetence and waste, someone said, "I could do better than that, and make money at it too!"
Lo and behold, someone did overcome the legal obstacles, raise the capital, get the prison built on a budget, and run it better and cheaper than the state. A win-win for everyone.
The retail prison has access to more prisoners than it is equipped to deal with, so they just have to worry about getting paid in a timely manner. They have only one "customer"; the state. So the industry maintains it's profits by keeping the Government happy with it's performance and price.
I don't accept that privatising correctional facilities is a win-win for society at large, also the sheer number being locked up and not sent for treatment may force many otherwise non gang members into gangs just to protect themselves while inside. Then their gang allegiances must continue when they are released which is not good for society at all.
Dauguy proposed that privatizing prisons increased the prison population. That doesn't make sense as a business model. Prison overcrowding begs for solutions.
Privatising goes toward solving the overcrowding problem and brings success to entrepreneurs at a lower cost to the taxpayer. That's what I meant by win-win.
The drug laws are not working to protect society. I didn't mean to insinuate that they were.
And by donating lots of money to lobby for harsher penalties and longer sentences.
Because they make money from it.
kinda makes 1984 seem rather tame :(
Prisons have become a business, lots of employment, lots of new construction. It's a career path for millions of folks. You need to keep inmates coming in the door to keep the system growing.
The whole process stinks.
Prisons have become a business, lots of employment, lots of new construction. It's a career path for thousands of folks.(corrected for accuracy) You need to keep inmates coming in the door to keep the system growing. (Unfortunately, not a problem)
The whole process works much better in private hands.
It is primarily the drug war, but supplemented by the welfare state. Prohibition creates a huge amount of profit by limiting supply and increasing risk, while demand remains about the same. This leads to gangs, thugs, guns, and other rackets in the now-criminal drug market.
The consumers go to jail, the retailers go to jail, the suppliers just get involved in transport, crime rings, and weapons.
The welfare state produces retailers and consumers for this market, by trapping the poor in isolated communities, segregated by public housing and public schools, with low morale and no hope for the future...
By and large only a small percentage of Americans can afford top notch criminal lawyers to defend them when they are innocent. Zealous prosecutors in the USA *always* assume guilty until proven innocent. In our system the only hope for justice is a great lawyer and/or a sympathetic jury.
B.S. More Liberal talking points.
I speak from experience; therefore, where B.S. is concerned you are the one who is full of it. I have often wondered why there are so many stupid people in prison and why there are so many with half a clue whose only saving grace was an IQ over 125 that helped enable them to never spend a day in the pen. Some people understand how the system works, others don't. In the USA, most don't.
You also have to look at the size and population of the US as compaired to the other countries usually considered in the polls. We do also have longer sentences for various crimes and a very high repeat offended rate.
That's why I specified by %, not by number.