A Saudi Cleric has called on women to wear a veil that covers the entire face except one eye. Do you agree with this?
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OMG, they are so backward in Saudi. Well, except in Dubai, where the happy male Muslims can drink, get prostitutes, and eat pork. As usual the women get picked on. Bastards.
He isn't misinformed in this case. It is against Muslim law to eat pork, drink alcohol or get prostitutes. In Dubai's case it is against the law for the Muslims, but not against the law for the Infidels. So her statement is sort of accurate, since who would be happy if they were a Muslim right. So she must have been referring to the infidel tourists.
Not all Muslims in majority Islamic countries are required to follow Islamic law. Same as here - we are not required to live by Christian law. Iraq, for one, had a secular state. Iran is another that has become more secular since the removal of the Ayatollah. I knew an Iranian Muslim who loved ham. A lot of the footage we see and stories we are told are nothing but propaganda - trying to encourage us in the belief that we are somehow 'freeing' an oppressed people. In Saudi Arabia, those stories are often true. But hey, we're never encouraged to 'free' the Saudi people, are we?
It's in the Koran to not eat pork, no have non marriage sex, and not to drink alcohol. If you do any of those things than you are violating Muslim law.
If you don't eat pork, you don't get trichinosis. If you don't eat any sea creatures that don't have eyes - you don't get e-coli. Sounds like pretty good dietary laws at the time they were added.
Muslim women in Kwait, Qtar, and many other majority-Muslims nations choose how they wish to dress - and do so freely. They drive cars and attend universities. The women in Iraq were also just as free - until the US arrived. I see very little of women in Iran, but I know Saudi women are severely oppressed. The difference is Saudi Arabia is our "special friend."
So until you see these things with your own eyes - bullshit. Some women choose to live under the strictest of Islamic law. I don't understand why no more than I understand why women choose to remain in abusive relationships. But to claim that they ALL live under the same oppressive thumb as the Saudi women, or women who live under the Taliban regimes, is phooey. They are free to choose whom they will marry and their own level of religiousness.
I know about the different Islamic regimes around the world. There is a good chance I know more about Islam than you do.
I do know the original reasons behind the pork ideas, but in the modern world, they are ridiculous, and the Koran is still the same. It cannot be changed to account for modern times.
I will once again point out that there is a difference in the two Holy Books. A fundamental difference in how they are to be read.
The Bible is written as man's interpretation of events he believed inspired by God. Some people are too dumb to realize that the Bible is not meant to be literal.
The Koran is a copy of a book that Allah wrote that resides in heaven. The original resides in heaven for all time. It is a fax from heaven. It was written by Allah and is meant to be taken literally. Ask any Muslim if what I say is true.
[1 point]1 year ago by CDogReplyEdited 1 year ago by CDog
A similar kind of dichotomy exists practically anywhere. It is simply more pronounced there than here, but if we wait, McCain et al will have us all barefoot and pregnant again.
I hate questions like this. It hardly matters if I agree with it or not, it is not my religion or culture. Do I agree with women being constricted like that? No. But it is also not much my business.
What a lot of conservatives don't seem to realise is that they have more in common with Muslims than with liberals. Moderate Muslims are not much more restrictive than conservative Christians. Things that conservative Christians think are fine (like the death penalty, lack of universal health care, discrimination against gays, believing literally in really old books) are pretty awful in the eyes of many progressive Christians and liberal atheists.
The Muslims I know from Saudi, UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Iraq, Malaysia and Indonesia are all very different and have varying ideas about women, religious laws, democracy and the West. To tar them all with one brush is offensive and frankly stupid.
The way to enlighten a group is by gaining the support of their most open-minded members - like the civil rights movement appealed to progressive whites to aid the cause. Building bridges with relatively open Muslim societies can help win them over. Calling all Muslims names really is not going to help your case, even if you feel you are right. A sweet whisper is worth a thousand screams.
But of course you are all so similar to the radical Muslims that you see your own reflections and get scared. Like 2 little terriers yipping away. Thankfully the beautiful liberal labradors will save the day as usual. It's a cross we are glad to bear... you can thank us by voting for Obama-Biden's second term ;-)
They're fine when they are right, which is rare in my experience. Moderates are sensible, liberals idealists, conservatives stubborn. The conservatives on here tend to be consistently off kilter with reality.
I consider myself left of centre. You and I may well agree on some issues. I'm not going to pretend that what I wrote above is either 100% accurate for every conservative/libertarian/Republican; it's more illustrative of the way I generally see conservative-leaning folk reacting to Islam.
[2 points]1 year ago by gaygaelReplyEdited 1 year ago by gaygael
I react the way I do to Islam because I have read the Koran, and I have read the accounts of Islam and Islamic life, written by Ibn Warraq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and others. Not because of the media.
I do agree with your point about some of the conservative members of this community. Some really are off kilter.
[2 points]1 year ago by CDogReplyEdited 1 year ago by CDog
United States
OMG, they are so backward in Saudi. Well, except in Dubai, where the happy male Muslims can drink, get prostitutes, and eat pork. As usual the women get picked on. Bastards.
This comment was deleted.
[2 points] 1 year ago by deleted user ReplyThis comment was deleted.
[1 point] 1 year ago by deleted user ReplyHe isn't misinformed in this case. It is against Muslim law to eat pork, drink alcohol or get prostitutes. In Dubai's case it is against the law for the Muslims, but not against the law for the Infidels. So her statement is sort of accurate, since who would be happy if they were a Muslim right. So she must have been referring to the infidel tourists.
Not all Muslims in majority Islamic countries are required to follow Islamic law. Same as here - we are not required to live by Christian law. Iraq, for one, had a secular state. Iran is another that has become more secular since the removal of the Ayatollah. I knew an Iranian Muslim who loved ham. A lot of the footage we see and stories we are told are nothing but propaganda - trying to encourage us in the belief that we are somehow 'freeing' an oppressed people. In Saudi Arabia, those stories are often true. But hey, we're never encouraged to 'free' the Saudi people, are we?
It's in the Koran to not eat pork, no have non marriage sex, and not to drink alcohol. If you do any of those things than you are violating Muslim law.
And they are oppressed. Especially the women.
If you don't eat pork, you don't get trichinosis. If you don't eat any sea creatures that don't have eyes - you don't get e-coli. Sounds like pretty good dietary laws at the time they were added.
Muslim women in Kwait, Qtar, and many other majority-Muslims nations choose how they wish to dress - and do so freely. They drive cars and attend universities. The women in Iraq were also just as free - until the US arrived. I see very little of women in Iran, but I know Saudi women are severely oppressed. The difference is Saudi Arabia is our "special friend."
So until you see these things with your own eyes - bullshit. Some women choose to live under the strictest of Islamic law. I don't understand why no more than I understand why women choose to remain in abusive relationships. But to claim that they ALL live under the same oppressive thumb as the Saudi women, or women who live under the Taliban regimes, is phooey. They are free to choose whom they will marry and their own level of religiousness.
I know about the different Islamic regimes around the world. There is a good chance I know more about Islam than you do.
I do know the original reasons behind the pork ideas, but in the modern world, they are ridiculous, and the Koran is still the same. It cannot be changed to account for modern times.
Much like the Christian Bible.
I explain the difference between the two "Holy Books" below.
This comment was deleted.
[2 points] 1 year ago by deleted user ReplyUm... Yay...
This comment was deleted.
[3 points] 1 year ago by deleted user ReplyI will once again point out that there is a difference in the two Holy Books. A fundamental difference in how they are to be read.
The Bible is written as man's interpretation of events he believed inspired by God. Some people are too dumb to realize that the Bible is not meant to be literal.
The Koran is a copy of a book that Allah wrote that resides in heaven. The original resides in heaven for all time. It is a fax from heaven. It was written by Allah and is meant to be taken literally. Ask any Muslim if what I say is true.
This comment was deleted.
[0 points] 1 year ago by deleted user ReplyA similar kind of dichotomy exists practically anywhere. It is simply more pronounced there than here, but if we wait, McCain et al will have us all barefoot and pregnant again.
Dubai is in the UAE not Saudi Arabia.
Only for my ex-mother-in-law.
I hate questions like this. It hardly matters if I agree with it or not, it is not my religion or culture. Do I agree with women being constricted like that? No. But it is also not much my business.
It will be your concern if enough Muslims immigrate to the USA.
I know several. They are lovely people.
This comment was deleted.
[0 points] 1 year ago by deleted user ReplyWhat a lot of conservatives don't seem to realise is that they have more in common with Muslims than with liberals. Moderate Muslims are not much more restrictive than conservative Christians. Things that conservative Christians think are fine (like the death penalty, lack of universal health care, discrimination against gays, believing literally in really old books) are pretty awful in the eyes of many progressive Christians and liberal atheists.
The Muslims I know from Saudi, UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Iraq, Malaysia and Indonesia are all very different and have varying ideas about women, religious laws, democracy and the West. To tar them all with one brush is offensive and frankly stupid.
The way to enlighten a group is by gaining the support of their most open-minded members - like the civil rights movement appealed to progressive whites to aid the cause. Building bridges with relatively open Muslim societies can help win them over. Calling all Muslims names really is not going to help your case, even if you feel you are right. A sweet whisper is worth a thousand screams.
But of course you are all so similar to the radical Muslims that you see your own reflections and get scared. Like 2 little terriers yipping away. Thankfully the beautiful liberal labradors will save the day as usual. It's a cross we are glad to bear... you can thank us by voting for Obama-Biden's second term ;-)
Who is you all? You certainly throw out a lot of generalized attacks. I am an atheist, so I can only assume you are not referring to me.
If you fit the mould of the people I described, then it refers to you. If not, then it doesn't.
I agree with some conservative ideas and views. But I don't agree with them all. You seem to like attacking all conservative views.
They're fine when they are right, which is rare in my experience. Moderates are sensible, liberals idealists, conservatives stubborn. The conservatives on here tend to be consistently off kilter with reality.
I consider myself left of centre. You and I may well agree on some issues. I'm not going to pretend that what I wrote above is either 100% accurate for every conservative/libertarian/Republican; it's more illustrative of the way I generally see conservative-leaning folk reacting to Islam.
I react the way I do to Islam because I have read the Koran, and I have read the accounts of Islam and Islamic life, written by Ibn Warraq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and others. Not because of the media.
I do agree with your point about some of the conservative members of this community. Some really are off kilter.
American conservatism as demonstrated here is a bit too extreme I believe, mostly trolls screwing around Obama groupies. ;)
Either that or they really need a redefinition of what conservatism is about.
Some of the conservatives on here are a bit extreme. I will confess to the screwing around with Chairman MaObama's advocates a little though.