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The Qur'an does NOT totally contradict Judaism and Christianity. Major stories from the Pentateuch appear in very similar versions in all three relgions. For instance, the story of Abraham and Isaac is virtually identical in the Jewish and Christian version, and differs in the Islamic version only by the substitution of Ishmael for Isaac. All three tell a very similar story of Noah, and similar versions of various other stories abut Abraham and Isaac.
As far as the new testament:
Devout Muslims beleive that Jesus was born without human male intervention, that he raised the dead, and that he healed lepers and the blind. This is not substantially different from similar stories in the Gospels. Only the emphasis changes, from prophet to savior.
The Qur'an also speaks of the final judgement and resurrection of believers.
These are just a few of the points on which the Qur'an agrees with the Bible.
"No, Muslims don't believe that Jesus was the messiah.
Think of it like a movie. The Torah is the first one, and the New Testament is the sequel. Then the Koran comes out, and it retcons the last one like it never happened. There's still Jesus, but he's not the main character anymore, and the messiah hasn't shown up yet.
Jews like the first movie but ignored the sequels. Christians think you need to watch the first two, but the third movie doesn't count. Muslims think the third one was the best.
Mormons like the second one so much that they started writing fan-fiction that doesn't fit with any of the series canon."
Very neat analogy. If Albert Broccoli owned the franchise, I suppose we'd have a new version every couple of years, and everybody would understand it as fiction. We'd also have a new Bible girl to appreciate.
[5 points]1 year ago by elwyattReplyEdited 1 year ago by elwyatt
Just to correct you there ...Muslims do believe in Jesus(peace be upon him) being one of the mightiest messenger of god but not God or Son of god and was born out of any male intervention but didnt die on the cross but rather he was raised alive up to heaven. Muslims also believe that Jesus(PBUH) will return at a time close to the end of the world
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Do I think it's the same God? If somebody writes something in Italian or English, they don't understand each other unless they speak both. And you ask if they use the same alphabet?
Even if your statement had been correct, one has nothing to do with the other.
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What do you expect from this guy? Though an Agnostic, he is one of the leading spokespeople for the Atheistic History perspective. That's not evidence. It's propaganda.
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John 8:56-59, says, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple."
Why did the Pharisees want to kill Jesus? They explain their reason in John 10:33 when they say, "For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God,"
Also, consider John 5:18 where the Apostle John says, "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God," . In this verse Jesus healed on the Sabbath and the Pharisees thought He was breaking the Sabbath law. John the Apostle also states that when Jesus claimed that God was His Father, that it was "making himself equal with God."
1) Jesus claimed to be God.
2) the Pharisees denied that Jesus was God and the Muslims agree with them.
so- no. not the same God.
[-1 points]1 year ago by kevinchicodeReplyEdited 1 year ago by kevinchicode
It's unfortunate, kevin, that you are so indoctrinated that it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you on this topic. That's a shame because you probably have some valuable knowledge to contribute, but all you do is regurgitate quotes from your magic book at the slightest provocation.
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Translate-
He provided evidence to support both his 1st and 2nd points, and then a conclusion based on these 2 pieces of evidence. I don't happen to agree with his conclusion, but that's because I think cultural issues have a lot more to do with the question.
You, on the other hand, do not believe in any god. You have already said that you do not believe the Bible offers anything valuable as evidence. You can't argue the nature of God WITHOUT referring to somebody's scripture. The only thing left is for you to argue the non-existence of God. But this question assumes the existence of God and asks about the nature of God. If you are going to have an intelligent conservation about this, you need to stay on topic.
"You can't argue the nature of God WITHOUT referring to somebody's scripture."
If that is true, then the nature of God can't be argued at all. If you have to use the magic book to prove what the magic book says is true, then you are proving nothing. It's circular logic.
I grant you that when I responded to kevin, I was more in mind of making the point that he does virtually nothing but spew chapter and verse as opposed to use his own words.
But I will admit I was being somewhat facetious in the process, since it's clearly not possible to have an intelligent conversation about that which is absolute nonsense, regardless of who the participants are.
I might add that I don't really consider my approach to this topic as arguing the non-existence of God. There is no argument. That is a 'given' to me, in the same sense it it is a given that Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy do not exist. In fact there is more evidence of the existence of either of those examples than there is of God.
No, my intent on this topic is to illuminate the sheer nonsense, cognitive dissonance, great hypocrisy and, ultimately, the danger presented by those who assert his existence. And to have a bit of fun in the process.
[3 points]1 year ago by translateReplyEdited 1 year ago by translate
Italy
The Qur'an does NOT totally contradict Judaism and Christianity. Major stories from the Pentateuch appear in very similar versions in all three relgions. For instance, the story of Abraham and Isaac is virtually identical in the Jewish and Christian version, and differs in the Islamic version only by the substitution of Ishmael for Isaac. All three tell a very similar story of Noah, and similar versions of various other stories abut Abraham and Isaac.
As far as the new testament:
Devout Muslims beleive that Jesus was born without human male intervention, that he raised the dead, and that he healed lepers and the blind. This is not substantially different from similar stories in the Gospels. Only the emphasis changes, from prophet to savior.
The Qur'an also speaks of the final judgement and resurrection of believers.
These are just a few of the points on which the Qur'an agrees with the Bible.
I spotted this reference online recently:
"No, Muslims don't believe that Jesus was the messiah.
Think of it like a movie. The Torah is the first one, and the New Testament is the sequel. Then the Koran comes out, and it retcons the last one like it never happened. There's still Jesus, but he's not the main character anymore, and the messiah hasn't shown up yet.
Jews like the first movie but ignored the sequels. Christians think you need to watch the first two, but the third movie doesn't count. Muslims think the third one was the best.
Mormons like the second one so much that they started writing fan-fiction that doesn't fit with any of the series canon."
Very neat analogy. If Albert Broccoli owned the franchise, I suppose we'd have a new version every couple of years, and everybody would understand it as fiction. We'd also have a new Bible girl to appreciate.
Just to correct you there ...Muslims do believe in Jesus(peace be upon him) being one of the mightiest messenger of god but not God or Son of god and was born out of any male intervention but didnt die on the cross but rather he was raised alive up to heaven. Muslims also believe that Jesus(PBUH) will return at a time close to the end of the world
Yes, but not as the Jewish Messiah. Or the Christian one. Jesus is a major prophet, not THE savior.
Loved it!
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What a subtle way to say that they are all fiction B^) Well Done. Wrong, but well done.
As always, that goes without saying, Joyce.
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Do I think it's the same God? If somebody writes something in Italian or English, they don't understand each other unless they speak both. And you ask if they use the same alphabet?
Even if your statement had been correct, one has nothing to do with the other.
If three cousins have the same grandparent, are they related, even if they speak different languages and use different alphabets?
That is a closer analogy.
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Probably right. I was just trying to say that one had next to nothing to do with the other.
So you think that three cousins do NOT have a common grandparent? Draw the charts.
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No, I just don't think you can determine if it is the same God by pointing out the contradictions between Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
Different versions of the same creation myth. Unavoidable in oral histories. Which all three were before they were written down.
Not sure as to the authenticity of any of them:
At least 19 of the 27 books in the New Testament are forgeries.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/05/15/bible.critic/index.html?iref=newssearch
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says that guy.. lol.
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What do you expect from this guy? Though an Agnostic, he is one of the leading spokespeople for the Atheistic History perspective. That's not evidence. It's propaganda.
This comment has been moderated down. (Show Comment)
John 8:56-59, says, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple."
Why did the Pharisees want to kill Jesus? They explain their reason in John 10:33 when they say, "For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God,"
Also, consider John 5:18 where the Apostle John says, "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God," . In this verse Jesus healed on the Sabbath and the Pharisees thought He was breaking the Sabbath law. John the Apostle also states that when Jesus claimed that God was His Father, that it was "making himself equal with God."
1) Jesus claimed to be God.
2) the Pharisees denied that Jesus was God and the Muslims agree with them.
so- no. not the same God.
It's unfortunate, kevin, that you are so indoctrinated that it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation with you on this topic. That's a shame because you probably have some valuable knowledge to contribute, but all you do is regurgitate quotes from your magic book at the slightest provocation.
This comment has been moderated down. (Show Comment)
Translate-
He provided evidence to support both his 1st and 2nd points, and then a conclusion based on these 2 pieces of evidence. I don't happen to agree with his conclusion, but that's because I think cultural issues have a lot more to do with the question.
You, on the other hand, do not believe in any god. You have already said that you do not believe the Bible offers anything valuable as evidence. You can't argue the nature of God WITHOUT referring to somebody's scripture. The only thing left is for you to argue the non-existence of God. But this question assumes the existence of God and asks about the nature of God. If you are going to have an intelligent conservation about this, you need to stay on topic.
"You can't argue the nature of God WITHOUT referring to somebody's scripture."
If that is true, then the nature of God can't be argued at all. If you have to use the magic book to prove what the magic book says is true, then you are proving nothing. It's circular logic.
I grant you that when I responded to kevin, I was more in mind of making the point that he does virtually nothing but spew chapter and verse as opposed to use his own words.
But I will admit I was being somewhat facetious in the process, since it's clearly not possible to have an intelligent conversation about that which is absolute nonsense, regardless of who the participants are.
I might add that I don't really consider my approach to this topic as arguing the non-existence of God. There is no argument. That is a 'given' to me, in the same sense it it is a given that Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy do not exist. In fact there is more evidence of the existence of either of those examples than there is of God.
No, my intent on this topic is to illuminate the sheer nonsense, cognitive dissonance, great hypocrisy and, ultimately, the danger presented by those who assert his existence. And to have a bit of fun in the process.
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Yeah, I know. Just wanted to point it out to those that don't know you as well.